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Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Plenty of stories, on both sides of that issue:

 

Detroit, Michigan: Pizza delivery man fights back after being ambushed
on Monday, February 21, 2011
WXYZ: A pizza delivery driver with a concealed carry permit used his gun to defend himself after three men tried to rob him.
Belgrade, Nebraska: Shooting called self-defense
on Friday, February 18, 2011
Omaha World Herald: A man fired in self-defense after another man he met at a bar attempted to break into his house following an altercation.
Wauconda, Illinois: Pharmacist shoots robbery suspect
on Thursday, February 17, 2011
Chicago Tribune: A man armed with a knife demanded drugs from two employees at a Wauconda drug store. After refusing to surrender, the pharmacist fired a shot, sending the intruder to the hospital.
Boston, Massachusetts: Store Clerk Shoots Man In Botched Robbery
on Thursday, February 17, 2011
The Boston Channel: An armed robber was shot by an armed clerk in Boston. **Note** Due to the increase in effort and labor to paraphrase every article brought on by the Righthaven lawsuits, The Armed Citizen is going to be moving more towards link-only, with maybe a sentence describing the nature of the crime. The [...]
Ex-Temple Law student not guilty in shooting
on Wednesday, February 16, 2011
Ex-Temple Law student not guilty in shooting This is an update to a defensive gun use story posted on the archives before Righthaven forced us to remove them.
Armed Pastor Holds Thieves for Police
on Wednesday, February 16, 2011
KRIS TV An armed pastor confronted two juveniles attempting to steal from a church remodeling project. The teens first pleaded, then threatened, the pastor, who held the men for police.
Sacramento, California: Would-be robbers flee after market employee fires gun in air
on Friday, February 11, 2011
Sacramento Bee: Four men in ski masks and armed with a pistol tried to hold up a Sacramento Market. The owner denied the robbers by firing a shot in the air, prompting their quick retreat. Thanks to Eddie for the tip!
Hazleton, Pennsylvania: Home invasion intruder killed
on Thursday, February 10, 2011
The Standard Speaker: A female homeowner shot one of several intruders breaking into her home in Pennsylvania. The woman was wounded but is expected to recover; one intruder was killed, the others retreated.
Indianapolis, Indiana: Man fatally shot during car break-in
on Tuesday, February 8, 2011
Indianapolis Star: An armed homeless man confronted two citizens and tried to break into their car. The owners were present, but rather than complying with the gunman’s demands, they drew weapons of their own, shooting the would-be robber. Neither armed citizen has been charged. Thanks to Earl for the tip!
Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

I fixed the link so it should work now.

Link to the actual study is at bottom of article.

 

And here is the working link

http://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

 

To go back to the original post in this thread I think your arguments fall into that paranoia that it talks of.

Fact is very few people will ever find themselves in a position of needing a gun let alone use it to benefit them.

Lots of people/homes with guns will see that gun(s) used against a memeber of the home.

That is what the facts show.

That is why they say a home without a gun is safer than a home with a gun.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

There is a BIG difference in our 2 links and it shows what the facts show, that a home with a gun is less safe than one without.

 

Your link has an average of less than 1 incident per day listed that a gun may have been beneficial.

My link lists lots of incidents every day where a gun injured or killed someone in the home.

 

The paranoia sold by the NRA has too many people thinking they will be 'Rambo' and save the world BUT the guns(s) they buy to do that are more likely to hurt or kill someone close to them in the real world.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

I fixed the link so it should work now.

Link to the actual study is at bottom of article.

 

To go back to the original post in this thread I think your arguments fall into that paranoia that it talks of.

Fact is very few people will ever find themselves in a position of needing a gun let alone use it to benefit them.

Lots of people/homes with guns will see that gun(s) used against a memeber of the home.

That is what the facts show.

That is why they say a home without a gun is safer than a home with a gun.


That is because the people who successfully defend their home with a fire arm doesn't always make it into the statistics. They also ignore the times a responsible gun owners stop a criminal when they are not in their home.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Of course there are these too.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/gun-accidents.htm

 

Some more recent gun and shooting accidents involving children include:

  • a 2-year-old in Cooper County, Missouri, died after shooting himself in the head with a handgun that "he got a hold of" in his house.
  • a 3-year-old in Loris, South Carolina, near Myrtle Beach, died after shooting himself in the head with a pistol that he found in the car.
  • a 5-year-old in Belleville, Illinois, near St. Louis, was accidentally shot in the head with a shotgun by his 10-year-old brother.
  • a 3-year-old in Maryland Heights, Missouri, near St. Louis, who shot himself once in the chest, died. He found the gun in his parents bedroom, one of whom is a police officer.
  • a 2-year-old was shot in the head by his 5-year-old brother in Connersville, Indiana who was playing with a gun he found in a bedroom. The boy, a twin, died of the gun shot.
  • a 3-year-old in St. Louis, Missouri who died after she shot herself in the head with a gun she found tucked between two mattresses.
  • a 6-year-old who was shot and killed by his 11-year-old stepbrother, in what was initially thought to be an accident, but the boy is now facing possible murder charges. The two boys were left home alone at the time of the shooting in Martinsville, Indiana.
  • a 10-year-old in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi died after he shot himself with his grandfather's gun that he found in his nightstand. He would have been going into the fifth grade next fall.
  • a 15-year-old from Cherry Hill, Baltimore was shot in the head and killed by a 12-year-old friend who was playing with the gun during a sleepover.

And the list goes on but that gives you an idea.

 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

OK, I read the article, and while I think it does make some valid points, they don't list the sources of their numbers, and I can tell the bias in thier wording.

A perfect example, would be the health risks to 'children' which they consider anyone under 25, which is fine, but what is their definition of 'killed with a gun'.  I have read a study, that said more or less the same thing, but they counted gang-bangers, and US soldiers, who were shot, which, while technically a gunshot victim, is not exactly a risk the average household has to deal with.  With no source data to go by, I have no way to know how the data was compiled.   In school, we did stats, and were shown how you could take raw data, and by how you phrased your statement, you could make several seemingly contradictary statements, using the exact same research.

 

A snippet from the article:

-snip-

“For example, a large percentage of homicides — and especially homicides in the home — occur during altercations over matters such as love, money, and domestic problems, involving acquaintances, neighbors, lovers, and family members; often the assailant or victim has been drinking

-snip-

I have firsthand knowledge of this sort of situation.   A friend of my wife, had an abusive husband, who got drunk, kicked in her door, and was staring down a shotgun barrell, who suddenly decided he didn't need to be there any more.  No shots fired, but I am convinced if she had been hiding in a closet, dialing 911, she would have been what they call a 'stastic'.  However, had she shot him (out of fear for her life, he put her in the hospital at least once before) the situation would have been a case of a 'gun in the home causing harm to someone you know'.

 

You speak of paranoia, of why one has a gun.   I can give you a couple reasons, one being I keep mine, where hte kids can't get to it.   Trigger locks are available for free, from the Sheriff's department, so there is NO excuse, NONE at all, why a kid who knows nothing of safe gun handling, should be able to fire one.  Don't punish me, because someoen else, is an idiot.

 

Second, is the crime deterrent.  

I have asked repeatedly, where anyone, has found any credible study, where stricter gun control, has caused the crime rate to go down where implemented, anywhere in the US.  I can link you to studies that show that more relaxed gun laws, lead to reduced crime in the US, higher gun ownership rates lead to reduced crime in the US, and 'shall issue' concealed carry laws, have reduced crime in the US.  The facts show, that in the US, more guns equal less crime.

 

The US does have too high of a murder rate, but the problem, is the murderer, not the tool.   We need to clean up the ghettos, where the criminals tend to come from, and secure the border, which is another great source of criminals, and illegal drugs.

I am on the forefront of getting guns out of the hands of criminals, and more importantly, criminals out of society, but I have seen no evidence that removing the guns from the law abiding citizenry, has ever reduced crime in the US.

 

 

 

 

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

There is no excuse for this sort of thing, owning a gun comes with the responsibility to keep them safely out of the kid's hands.

 

I could show you a similar list, of kids killed by dogs, would that make you suggest we get rid of dogs, or would you say more needs to be done, about careless dog owners?

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

There is a BIG difference in our 2 links and it shows what the facts show, that a home with a gun is less safe than one without.

How does it do that?   The vast majority of the deaths on your link, were not at home when they were shot, and I read down 2-3 day's worth, and found only two incidents where the victim was shot with their own gun, and those were suicides.

Your link has an average of less than 1 incident per day listed that a gun may have been beneficial.

My link lists lots of incidents every day where a gun injured or killed someone in the home.

 

Canuk, I thought you were scientific, and anylitical.   To just compare one link to another, and see that as 'proof' that you are right, is using haphazard data, at best, and is purely anecdotal.

 

The paranoia sold by the NRA has too many people thinking they will be 'Rambo' and save the world BUT the guns(s) they buy to do that are more likely to hurt or kill someone close to them in the real world.

 

Which is equally matched, by the paranoia, that says if we just get rid of guns, murderers will convert to harmless, law abiding citizens.

 


 

Snooky1953
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

You really know a lot about guns don't you.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

And you totally missed the point that I was making, no surprise there, I guess.