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Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

You are still stuck with the paranoia and can not see how 1 incident of a gun helping is off set by lots of incidents of guns harming innocents.

Cost/ benefit.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Read this article

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/09/guns-traffic-deaths-rates/1784595/

 the rate of firearms deaths has exceeded traffic fatalities in several states, including Arizona, Colorado, the District of Columbia, Michigan, Nevada and Oregon, records show. The rate is equal in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

FULL COVERAGE: Debate over guns in America

In the United States in 2010, the rate of firearm deaths was 10 people per 100,000, while for traffic accidents it was 12 per 100,000. Firearm-related deaths totaled 31,672 in 2010.

.............

Proponents of gun control say the converging death rates are due to better safety regulations for cars, while there has been little regulation, education or research on gun fatalities, said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center.

 

Hobbyfarmer
Honored Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

It's winter in Ontario

 

And the gentle breezes  blow,

 

70 miles per hour at 52 below!

 

Oh, how I love Ontario

 

When the snow's up to your butt;

 

You take a breath of winter air

 

And your nose is frozen shut.

 

Yes, the weather here is wonderful,

 

You may think I'm a fool.

 

I could never leave Ontario ,

 

Cause I'm frozen to the  stool.

 

 

 

 

 

frozen to the stool.gif

man of steel
Senior Contributor

So Canuck

When did you get rid of your guns?

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

So your county is one but the numbers across the USA show differently.

 

Obviously you do not buy into the paranoia of the gun nuts who have to have a gun to protect them at all times.

 

Absolutely not,  The only arguments I buy into, is that once they start outlawing guns, it won't be long before they outlaw most, or all of them, and that as long as I am not a danger to anyone else, I should be able to make my own choice, based on my own calculated risk, if I have a gun or not.

 

You sound like me with a gun or guns for usefull purposes but they are not accessible quickly or easily.

Guns locked one place ammo another.

 

Sounds like you are like me, you calculated the risk vs usefulness, and figure you have a way to make the situation safe enough, that you feel you can own a gun. (or however many)

 

Looking at errors in health care has nothing to do with gun deaths,

 

I didn't mean to imply that they were connectedYou used a link, from a medical source, who was touting the 'dangers' of a gun.  I know all about the American Pediactric Association, and in my opinion, they have turned as much to a political agenda, as they are towards public safety.   I threw those numbers out there, partly for perspective (many, many more people die from a medical 'oops' moment, than from gun deaths) and partly to show their political motovation (can you find an article from them, about how to prevent people from dying, from medical blunders?  I couldn't, and I wonder why a medical orginazation doesn't cover that sort of thing, but rather gun ownership, which kills far fewer people.  However, if you do find info, where they are trying to 'educate' patients, on what to do to protect themselves from a medical blunder, I retract that statement, and will apologize to APA, but as of now, I couldn't find anything on it).  However, just going by the numbers, my doctor, is many times more likely to kill me, than my gun.

 

I see arguments that cars kill more people so you should ban cars but I recently read a prediction that in a few years, I think it was 2015, at present trends there would be more gun deaths in the US than car fatalities.

I don't know about that, but I think the trend for BOTH is downward.

Actually, I think there are ways we can treat cars, and guns, similarly.   Both are safe enough, if used properly, and with responsibility, and both are deadly, if misused.

When you hear a story about a kid who was playing in a car, and it rolled out in the street, or one who started it up, and drove around until they wrecked it, what is your first thought?   IS it, 'they should ban cars', or is it, 'some car owner was irresponsible', and the car owner should have had 'the keys out of it, and the car locked'.    If you think about it, that is my view on a gun.   It is where the kids can't get to it, with either the bolt in the locked drawer with the ammo, or in the case of my revolver, with a trigger lock on it.   Even if one were to smash into the locked gun case (which could be doable, as it has glass in the door) it would still take some time for them to figure out where the ammo was, where the bolt or key to the trigger lock was, etc.   As MY guns are, I can't see how they are a danger, to me or my family.  Again, statistics may show, that a gun in the home, can be a hazard, but I say that just because some gun owners are idiots, does not mean all are.

 

To really expand on it, Nebraska treats guns, much like cars.   You need to have a proper permit, to get a gun, and the 'class' of gun you can buy, is dependant on the type of permit you have.  Right now, there are 4 'classes' or types.  One is 'no' permit required, like to buy a BB gun.  Then the 'simple' one, to buy a rifle, shotgun, and certain handguns (includes full background check for not just criminal records, but mental health ones), then the 'carry' permit (to carry a handgun in public) requires all that, plus you MUST complete, and pass not only gun safety classes, but classes on shoot/don't shoot scenarios, and then you can go up from there, to be able to get things like a suppressor for your rifle (don't know if they are legal for handguns in NE, or not).

That is actually fairly simple, all checks are done by local law enforcement (they know best, about your behavior), and is easily enforced (if you 'have' the permit, but forget to carry it on you, the officer impounds your weapon, until you bring your permit in, there is a fine, but it is not a criminal offense, and then they return it to you.   Takes about 30 seconds to verify you have the permit, for your gun, and it must be renewed regularly.  The permit I have, needs renewing every 3 years.

 

Another argument has been that dogs kill people too so ban dogs before you ban guns so I looked that one up.............

This listing for fatal dog bites shows about 30 per year all ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

 

This shows 3,385 gun fatalities of people under 19 years old in 1999. Did not look for other years but doubt numbers have changed much.

http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

 

It was just an example, but just to be onery, I wonder what the numbers would be, if we looked up 'all' injuries attributed to both, instead of just deaths. 

 

 

The gun lobby is great at deflecting the subject but they do not have anything to actually refute the fact that guns are deadly and a home with a gun is more dangerous than one without AND more dangerous than a home with a dog too.

BTW I bet there are more homes with dogs than with guns.

 

That could be, but I've been 'dog bit' at least 5-6 times already, once that took stitches, yet I have never been harmed in the slightest, teeniest bit, by any kind of gun.

 

Have you, in your life, ever been bitten by a dog?
Shot by a gun?

 


 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

You are still stuck with the paranoia and can not see how 1 incident of a gun helping is off set by lots of incidents of guns harming innocents.

Cost/ benefit.


One incident?

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Not sure that is Ontario.

Winds here travel in kilometres per hour.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: So Canuck

Why would I want to do that.

I have a reason to keep a gun but it is not for protection and it is safely stored and it was licensed until our government destroyed all the data anyway.

Canuck_2
Senior Contributor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?

Neb;

I don't know where to start.

Couple points 

Where are guns outlawed? Where is there plans to outlaw them?

Do you really want no rules or restrictions on guns?

You say your state already has rules and restrictions.

If no restrictions then anyone could have a machine gun or a cannon, heck a tank with a working gun.

 

I think lots of guns should be banned outright for the public and others need restrictions.

And all should require licenses to acquire and records kept to know they remain in legitimate owners hands.

 

You state has rules but a drive to a neighbouring state might get you lots of guns with no questions asked.

 

Owning a gun for a usefull purpose is necessary but it is the attitude behind the ownership that makes a difference. Mine are stored safely and seldom come out, evne less since the neighbour son went for a license and bought a rifle to put down distressed animals and I no longer have livestock so maybe it is almost time for me to dispose of my guns.

 

If you want to compare deaths why not compare gun deaths between our 2 countries.

That would be comparinng 'apples and apples'.

 

Would have to go back and check the numbers but I thought they showed car deaths declining because of safety features but gun deaths flat or still increasing slighly and one of the points in the article was that nothing has been done to improve safety of guns.

 

Slight **bleep** from a dog one time and a badly bruised shoulder from a shotgun one time but I meet up with dogs on a regular basis and only come in contact with a gun on rare occasions.

Mine has stayed locked up for probably 2 years now. Do not see other guns often, even the hunters that use my land seldom have a gun on display when i talk to them.

Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: What's so special about the AR-15?


@Canuck_2 wrote:

Neb;

I don't know where to start.

Couple points 

Where are guns outlawed? Where is there plans to outlaw them?

 

They were at one time, outlawed in DC, Chicago, and a few other locals.  Ok, not 'outlawed', because government workers, who wanted a gun, could get one, and a few of the well politically connected could, as well, but for the most part, the average law abiding citizen, was for all practical purposes, not allowed to have a gun.

 

Do you really want no rules or restrictions on guns?

 

Read my last post.  I think I tried to explain Nebraska gun laws, in laymans terms.   I have no problem, with what we have in my home State, and so far it has been pretty effective at curbing mass shootings, and even murders in general.

 

You say your state already has rules and restrictions.

If no restrictions then anyone could have a machine gun or a cannon, heck a tank with a working gun.

 

I never said that, nor did I ever imply that.   However, now that you mention it, a tank with working gun WOULD give me more range at those pesky coyotes than my lever gun.

 

I think lots of guns should be banned outright for the public and others need restrictions.

 

Fair enough, but the devil, as always, is in the details.  Who decides what guns someone else 'needs'?

I have been on the record before, and I will say it again, I have NO problem banning 'assault style' weapons like the AR-15, and limiting every semi-auto everywhere to 10 rounds or less, and making the rules like Nebraska has, nation-wide, on the condition that no other gun bans would ever get passed.

Are you willing to agree to that?

 

And all should require licenses to acquire and records kept to know they remain in legitimate owners hands.

 

What about a permit system, like I mentioned, in which anyone who has a gun on them, must also have the permit.   Also, if I were to have a gun on me, I MUST tell an officer that I do, even in a routine traffic stop, otherwise we are talking Felony, my gun is taken away, along with my permit, and any chance of buying a replacement except from the guy in the windowless van, who parks in the alley with a burned out streetlight.

 

You state has rules but a drive to a neighbouring state might get you lots of guns with no questions asked.

 

I thought my suggestion, of getting rules such as we have, expanded to all States, was pretty obvious.   Why couldn't it be done?   As far as I know, no one has tried.   Myself, I think there is more to be gained politically, by each party pandering to their bases, blaming the other side, grandstanding, and walking around with their hand out, for contributions, than there would be, to bringing up actual common sense rules, that 90% of the people could live with.   Anyone doing that, would be called a 'traitor' by both sides.

 

Owning a gun for a usefull purpose is necessary but it is the attitude behind the ownership that makes a difference. Mine are stored safely and seldom come out, evne less since the neighbour son went for a license and bought a rifle to put down distressed animals and I no longer have livestock so maybe it is almost time for me to dispose of my guns.

 

Isn't it better, to make that choice on your own, than someone else making it for you?

Over here, I am good friends with the Fire/Rescue chief, and if someone is in an accident with a deer, and the deer is still alive, they know they can call me to dispose of it humanely.   I live a half hour drive from town, so if I can drive 5 minutes, and save an animal 25 minutes of suffering, I'm glad to do it.

 

If you want to compare deaths why not compare gun deaths between our 2 countries.

That would be comparinng 'apples and apples'.

 

I don't belive that would be the case.  Canada does not have the drug trafficing from Mexico, like the US does.   I have read where 80% of murders are connected to illegal drugs, and about 50% are from illegal aliens (yes, I know that adds up to 130%, I am assuming a huge overlap, in the instances of drug dealers from Mexico).  That would be as apples to oranges, as comparing crime statistics from the US, and Mexico.

 

Would have to go back and check the numbers but I thought they showed car deaths declining because of safety features but gun deaths flat or still increasing slighly and one of the points in the article was that nothing has been done to improve safety of guns.

 

Guns actually have had safety measures added, to prevent 'accidental' discharges, and accidental gun deaths have been steadily dropping for quite some time.  It is the 'on purpose' shootings, that are not going down, and I don't think they will, until we root out WHY some people want to shoot others.

 

Slight **bleep** from a dog one time and a badly bruised shoulder from a shotgun one time but I meet up with dogs on a regular basis and only come in contact with a gun on rare occasions.

Mine has stayed locked up for probably 2 years now. Do not see other guns often, even the hunters that use my land seldom have a gun on display when i talk to them.