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Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.


@ddgfs wrote:

I'm not at all inclined to accept the initial assertion- that a fetus in early stages of development is fully human although there is clearly a point on the continuum between conception and parturition where the precautionary principle says no.


I'm not aware, Nox, of an instance where an organism is of an in between state of one species and another.   If it is not human, what is it?  If I performed test upon a tissue sample, what species would be discovered?   Some sort of hybrid?  If we take the approach of science and reason it can be nothing but a living human.  

 

An in between state where say the soul has not yet entered so no rights have yet been acquired is the realm of religion.

Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.


@Canuck_2 wrote:

So your argument would say any one who is against abortion would be against capital punishment and war that is anything more than self defence .

Think they all fit in that category?


When you violate the rights of another you sacrifice your own.   Otherwise there would be no rational justification for even incarceration.

Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

Cut to the chase. There are people who follow religion and object to abortion. Nothing wrong with that if you like that. 

The other is ascertaining if the foetus is a human being or not.  Religious objection has never cared about identifying that but objects nonetheless. I have yet to see science etc define when it becomes a human. Maybe it is. Society is ambivalent about it otherwise it would be illegal. It’s not.  Leaving the choice to the person concerned.  

No one tells anyone how to run their business or whatever. What gives anyone or anything, government or otherwise, to interfere in a persons freedom.  It comes down to that no doubt. 

Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

When you violate the rights of another you sacrifice your own

So why would you think it is ok to violate the rights of a woman by not allowing her to make the decision about carrying a fetus to term?

Senior Contributor

silly comment

"No one tells anyone how to run their business or whatever. What gives anyone or anything, government or otherwise, to interfere in a persons freedom.  It comes down to that no doubt. "

Made me laugh reading that comment.   I walked into the LBJ library and saw a huge wall covered with books full of restrictions on life.

 

Senior Advisor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

The woman's rights are not being violated. The child is being denied life. The ultimate violation. Taking the child's life is no different than some one taking your own. To say it is not you must say the child is not human, and science tells us it is.

Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

I am against abortion & against capital punishment, however

You are against it unless......... that 'however ' allows anything to be possible.

Since you bring up that fetal 'heartbeat' did you know that the human fetus does not have a functioning 'heart' with muscles until 20 weeks?

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=167987

Senior Contributor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

Some one facing capital punishment has been adjudicated in a court of law

So you are OK with the state killing a living breathing human and yet you will not let a living breathing human decide what she wants to allow in her body.

You think the state should make all the decisions about who lives and dies and what they can do with their own body and life.

Senior Contributor

Re: silly comment

Sperm and eggs exist via cellular respiration.

By the standard that says that life begins at conception, oral contraceptives are the greatest lifesaver in human history since they prevent ovulation and thus have prevented billions of fertilized eggs from dying.

That's probably the most ideal approach from an ethical point of view- don't have all those frustrated sperm and eggs being denied their destiny via barrier methods.

Clancy Thomas' active mind appears to be going there- likely under the influence of decades of being surrounded by whackjobs- not sure if the sacred rights of sperm will be enshrined in constitutional precedent via Natural Law in my lifetime of not.

Oh well. The states where a majority is obsessed with the matter will continue their decline. Intelligent people prefer not to live under Natural Law as defined by Uncle Cletus.

For the most part intelligent and humane people want universal access to contraception and more support for individuals with inconvenient pregnancies.

The annual Pew poll on abortion continues to indicate that the majority of Americans support abortion in some cases all only 25% support it in all cases. That's about double the number who oppose it in all cases. The messy part is in the middle.

Senior Advisor

Re: Why abortion is not freedom and prolife is not religion.

You trying to make a comparison of the two is beyond ridiculous. What has the child been found guilty of? To deny the child the right to his/her life is to deny they are human. To deny they are human is to deny science.