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OKdon
Senior Contributor

Why are you folks so resistant

the transition to non fossil fuel useage? Even if you dont believe in climate change, Solar,wind and geothermal offers so much savings over the long pull.. Of course, the new innovations are costly but they are becoming far more efficient over time.

 

Plus every unit of natural energy produced diminishes the consumption of fossil fuels. So our wind farm or geothermal unit lessens the demand and cost of fossil fuel. You don't have to do it yourselves. Just stop diminishing those that do make the commitment.

 

the goal should be cost savings and cleaner air. If you choose not to participate, that is ok but at least applaud those that do.

36 Replies
bruce MN
Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

They don't care one way or the other about it. 

 

What at is well known is that traditional energy money led the field in GOP interests keeping the thumpers hooked up with the party by saying "yeah.  We do to.  What you good folks say.  We're all for it.  You betcha.".  And laughing all the way to the bank.

 

it's obvious from what is being reported that many of those same moguls are going to be supporting Hilary over Trump.  Do you suppose 3020 etal will suddenly be all for alternative energy to punish the money boys for that?

 

i honestly think that some of these clowns think that someone has been keeping a ledger, chronicling their support.  I wouldn't bank on any dividends.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

Well a few years ago gas was $4 and oil at $150 we were promised and promised "Oh this is it!! No more oil, it`s all pumped out We shoulda developed solar and wind more when we had the chance!!!"...well here we are $45 oil $2.00 gas...tankers lined up across the ocean filled up.   Well that was a buncha crap, there was no peak oil, so why should we listen now?

 

I suppose one day we will pump the last of the cheap oil, but as oil gets higher the pressure will intensify to speed up the developement of alternate energy.  We`re going great guns now, Tesla cars, windmills and solar panels...and the technology improves every year.  One day there will be a sweet spot where oil/coal goes up and solar/wind costs come down and the change will become a no-brainer. 

 

Patience patience patience, it`s no sense in breaking our necks too soon on the change over.  See, that throwing ridiculous amounts of government money at it, you get crony capitalism like Solyndra...let the market decide.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

I'm all for it as long as the government is not involved. Let the market bring forth the next great energy source.

hardnox
Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

Along those lines I predict that the Kochs will be the next ones to roll over for Alpha Dog Trump.

 

They probably do believe in the libertarian meritocracy hoopla but their bread gets buttered by fossil fuels and their money and influence can be found in most of the denier groups and scientists.

 

And like Adelson who recently caved big, their operations are perfect political money laundering setups.

 

A privately held corporation with 420 different offshore entities, shipping crude on Panamanian flagged tankers- too easy.

 

As Is a Macau casino.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

In the 70s in school we were brainwashed that there`d be no more oil "fossil fuels" by 1990 or whatever. Fictitional stories of the world we would inherit we couldn`t heat big houses and we`d have to dry our clothes on the line.  Then in 2008 it really looked like we were running out of oil, cottage industries claiming gloom and doom...even I believed it.

 

Now we have a glut of oil, they say "300 years of oil @ $75/barrel in the Bakkens".  I don`t know what to believe anymore, if we really weren`t close to "peak oil" when it was $150, they were really screwing us.   My theory was Sec of State Kerry wanted to break the Russians (because Putin is a homophobe) so he told the Saudis "Pump oil to beat hell and make a worldwide glut of oil...or we will use a false flag to go to war against you, as you`ve seen us do with many other countries and your country will glow in the dark for the next 1,000 years".

 

There`s a couple other excuses besides Putin being a homophobe that there`s a glut of oil. 1. break the domestic US oil production...for a new world order we have to be energy dependent on foreign countries.   2. The US economy is so weak that anymore $4 gas would`ve thrown us into a bonafide recession...and considering the president that they have to prop up, they aren`t really for the "big one" yet.  My 2¢

Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)
Veteran Advisor

Re: My thoughts about your opinion...

hardnox
Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

I don't know what they were teaching all you above average children at Little School on the Prairie, but that's not what the Limits To Growth (hoax) said. It predicted that conventional oil production would peak around 2000. And it did, around 2005*.

 

Right now you have some tight oil filling in and it is a financial catastrophe.

 

It is probably theoretically possible to hold oil production at these levels for a long time. EROEI is the rub- the high EROEI stuff is in sharp decline and being replaced by stuff that requires a lot more energy to extract (and by implication, cost). So we'll just pump n' frack, dig up oil sand, go after ultra-deepwater what not but the net amount available to the rest of the economies will decline fairly steadily.

 

So we'll just wreck the planet, directly and indirectly, for no good purpose.

 

There's some reason to be optimistic about the falling costs of various forms of alternative energy. But it is a critical inflection point where we'll either invest our last dribs and drabs of nature's free gift in the shift or we'll run it down a rathole.

 

For the white fellers who are going to return us to Disneyland, the choice is clear.

 

* the shape of the cliff for various fields is unclear. There could/should be a pretty sharp permanent drop coming fairly soon as technology and price have encouraged enhanced extraction.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

If all the low hanging oil fruit has been picked and all that`s left is the low EROEI oil...well why are the Kochs and Saudis giving us such a good deal?   The Saudis especially, they`ve got nothing once their oil is gone.   I`m not saying that we haven`t hit some sort of "peak oil" but consumption is down, partly a poor econmy and partly a changing economy.  The kids are on their devices rather than "scooping the loop" in a `73 jacked up Chevelle with a 396 big block and 4 barrel double pumper.  K-Mart and Pennys are going broke because people "point and click" on Amazon rather than go to the mall.

 

 

But I don`t know how much faster one could expect the transition to alternative enery..windmills couldn`t go up any faster, if the powerline infrstructure was in place, they`d go up faster yet.  The millenials and old hippies have been brainwashed into going green.  If the country isn`t back in the stone age, 5 years from now, alternative enery will have advanced even more.  it`s just some of you guys think unless it happens overnight it`s too late, that lack of patience leads to wasting money. 

 

schnurrbart
Veteran Advisor

Re: Why are you folks so resistant

And you guys and mainly the ones you put in charge, all think that if something isn't a cure out of the box, we shouldn't do it.  Nothing is that good out of the box but the more "little" things that are done, the better they get and the more independence from oil is achieved!!  In our red state, the electiric companies say they are for solar.  It is great with about 350 sunny days a year.  You put it in and the electric companies charge you a surcharge to offset the lower usage!!  So people are not jumping for it.  There is a lot of solar here but not what it could be.