cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
hardnox604008
Advisor

a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/10/190907/tomas-de-torquemada-in-the-us.html#.UZDiILXIWqo

 

"I knew that sexual assault, suicide and war wounds were already tearing up the military. Now, yet another perniciously destructive anomaly threatened good order and discipline in the ranks. And this one came from an almost unbelievable source: so-called Christians.

I write "so-called" simply because these people do not believe in the Christ of the scriptures; they believe in some human-crafted, almost devil-like version of Christ. These people have done to Christ what Osama bin Laden did to Muhammad."

 
Heckuva way to start the week since there is nothing that is more sure to put me in a bad mood than arguing about religion. I tend to feel bad when, for whatever reason, I've felt the need to criticize the cherished beliefs of others.
 
But anyway, I've recently been involved in a study of Chistopher Hitchens' "Your God is Not Great" which amounts to the final comprehensive manifesto of the world's leading intellectual atheist. There really isn't a lot that can be put forth in direct refutation of the scathing indictment that he lays out about the craz y @#$% that people can be made to believe and the enormously destructive consequences of errant religious thought across history.
 
That said, I'm nevertheless a Christian believer. My conclusion, though, is that about 98% of the theology of Christianity is total crap or at best is so arcane and abstruse that, if the high priests and philosphers want to argue about How Many Angels Can Dance on the Head of a Pin behind closed doors that is their business but they are far too dangerous to be let out beyond the cloistered walls and into the possession of opportunistic charlatans. For the rest of us loving God and attempting to live by the golden rule is about the best we can do.
 
I'm certainly not well versed in Islamic theology and don't personally accept the tenets of the faith as I understand them. But as best I can understand, the current radical manifestation of Islam that in the minds of many is an existential threat to our civilization grew out of the efforts of the CIA and ISI to whip the lagging Afghan resistance into a religious fervor against the Soviet invaders. It apparently never occurred to them that once infected with those religious notions it might infect a broad swath of the faith and be directed against other western interlopers and the Zionists who had recently created a colony in their midst, displacing and persucuting some of their brethren.
 
I'm nearly as ignorant of Jewish theology but it appears to me that the Zionist movement also emerged fairly recently- first in the 17th century and then becoming widespread by the 19th. It was a resonse to the plight of the diaspora Jews who were scattered acoss Euriope and their periodic persecutions. Again, it seems to also have been a primarily political movement where religious thought was tweeked and comingled with the historical experience of Jews until it had also had created a mass epidemic of religious infection.
 
As far a Christianity goes there are plenty of historical examples of religious thought being used as a political tool to inspire the masses to mayhem. The most recent- and mardest to recognize becasue it is currently extant, not something in the historical mirror- is all of the bunkum that can be generally described as Christian Zionism.  The source of that particular theological infection is also recent, tracing to Darby, Scofield et al in the 19th century.
 
We're now faced with the frightening circumstances whereby dispensationalist, apocaplyptic beliefs are widely held across our society. The scariest part of it all is the extent of to which they have been embedded into all of the US armed forces, particulalry the Air Force which comes close to being under the domination of a doomsday cult. 
 
Think about that the next time you're sitting in an $80 seat in Corporate Stadium drinking $8 beers and the Falcons do a PR  flyover-guaranteed buzzkiller.
 
Back to Hitchens. The first criticism I'm direct at him is that as a professional public intellectual he was a vocal supporter of the invarion of Iraq, the greatest foreign policy blunder in US history. He wrapped his reasoning in his contempt for those unruly islammers but in the end his secular rationalist belief system didn't aid his discernment in the least.
 
In addition he was heavy handed on the easy targets- Islam- and Christianity- particularly as practiced by the classes of Americans well beneath the status of he and his sophisticated crowd. I thought he went easy on Judaism, which is a lot touchier target among his peers and the people who are going to publish and promote his books. That despite what I would assert is a political contamination within elements of that faith that are just as profound as in the other two branches of Abraham- maybe the most of all when it is used in the service of a crazed opportunist like Netanyahu.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

17 Replies
r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

The US army has had chaplains and Christian worship as long as there has been an US military. Now it being infiltrated by white atheist supremacist who want to divide and conquer the military from the inside. No one in this country can be more satisfied than Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, and Barack Obama. This has been their dream since their radical days of their youth. For the first time ever Michelle Obama is proud of our military.

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

Col. Chivington, a devout man of God no doubt, most surely had his Company Chaplains hold chapel before galloping off to Sand Creek. 

 

Have you actually talked to any9one who has served in teh past dozen years abou t this matter.  Seek a cross section (if that is possible inside your dome) of veterans out and ask them what they ran into.  I've done some of that and it's been appalling. Actually, both the proseletyzing and the severe degree of abuse of female personal.   Been going on in the Air Force for long before 9-11, but has become endemic across the services now. 

 

No reason to know though.  I understand that.  Complicates everything.

 

 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions


@bruce MN wrote:

Col. Chivington, a devout man of God no doubt, most surely had his Company Chaplains hold chapel before galloping off to Sand Creek. 

 

Have you actually talked to any9one who has served in teh past dozen years abou t this matter.  Seek a cross section (if that is possible inside your dome) of veterans out and ask them what they ran into.  I've done some of that and it's been appalling. Actually, both the proseletyzing and the severe degree of abuse of female personal.   Been going on in the Air Force for long before 9-11, but has become endemic across the services now. 

 

No reason to know though.  I understand that.  Complicates everything.

 

 


Oh yeah, you talked to a guy of like thinking. Now saying mass is considered proselytizing, the Priest will soon be court martialed. Soldier have to be made to realize there is no authority higher than their god, the government.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

Religious fundamentalism is one of the boogey men that stirs the base, sorry I ain't buying.  I don't see how any dispassionate observer could come to any conclusion but that religion in general is on the wane in this country.  I know of no serious legislative attempts of the last decade to force any kind of religion on me.  The statist are constantly trying to muck with me though, those bastards are the ones you need be warning people about.

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

Spoiler
 

Wow.  how did you pare that out of what I said?

 

The magintued of this very serious problem( that actually has had much written about it over the past decade but now Col  Wilkerson gets the kind of forum that someone of his accomplishment and legacy could get) has little or nothing to do with tradtional chaplaincies or Mass or services on bases.

 

Again....go seek out some returning volunteers.  Enough to get some statistical certainty.  That might be hard for you as you always seem to be severly cloistered.

 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions


@bruce MN wrote:
Spoiler
 

Wow.  how did you pare that out of what I said?

 

The magintued of this very serious problem( that actually has had much written about it over the past decade but now Col  Wilkerson gets the kind of forum that someone of his accomplishment and legacy could get) has little or nothing to do with tradtional chaplaincies or Mass or services on bases.

 

Again....go seek out some returning volunteers.  Enough to get some statistical certainty.  That might be hard for you as you always seem to be severly cloistered.

 


Really Bruce, you are going to set there and try to make me believe the US military has been taken over by a bunch of thumpers? Even though now we have openly gay people serving in the military. And it all happened BEFORE Barack Obama became commander in chief and is just now coming to light. Chris Mathews has taught you well. Did it all start with FDR's 9 minute prayer on the D day invasion?

hardnox604008
Advisor

Gog and Magog

http://archive.truthout.org/article/a-little-scoop-bush-chirac-god-gog-and-magog

 

As to whether Bush thought this was actually relevant or merely meant it as a metaphor (I can think of better ones to use with a social democrat nominally catholic frog) who knows?

bruce MN
Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

Geeze...again.. just now coming to light?  Google Boykins.  It's been exploding within the services, most notably at the Service Acadamies,  most notably among them the USAFA since 2001. 

 

Google:  Melinda Morton

 

               Micheal Whittington

 

Read:    http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/MiliaryReligion.pdf

 

        

hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: a cancer in the Abrahamic religions

Little doubt in my mind that it is not entirely unlike the purposes of the radical madrasas in Pakistan during the war against the soviets.

 

Think tankers thought that they could fight a massive counterinsurgency type war with a relatively small number of professional troops, perpetually deployed.  and if that required adding some spiritual meth to the recipe, so be it.

 

BTW, William Lind disappeared, along with his "On War" blog at approximately the time of the Iraq surge, which he predicted would fail. He turned out to be wrong, if not in military terms then in a failure of imagination about just how far we'd go in terms of covert money and ethnic cleansing in order to avoid an outright defeat.

 

And I've said, as tragic as the whole thing was, we couldn't afford to lose at that point regardless of what it took. Not that we ever should have been to that point by any means.

 

When the Boston bombing story first broke I coudn't help of his admonition from long ago that when the IED comes to America it will probably be disillusioned veterans who bring it here. It hasn't turned out that way but also neither has the war- rather than a Soviet/Afghan style defeat our loss is being registered in the form of a continuing hemmorhage of treasure and the fracturing of our military institution.

 

It seems like as a country we walk a fine line between not wanting to repeat the egregious mistake of Vietnam in terms of dishonoring those who served and creating a dangerous mythology about the wars and the people who have fought in them.  It is better in the short term- in terms of not isolating them from society- not so certain how it plays longer term.