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Advisor

......and bashes Mitt

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/the-mitt-hawley-fallacy/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=B...

 

I believe what I've said is that "agriculture" seems an odd place to find protectionist sentiments.

 

And, I'd be a bit cautious in hitting China too hard while they're in the middle of a pivotal economic and, potentially, political shift. That's more a geopolitical matter than economic.

 

 

34 Replies
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Honored Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

Clap clap clap clap  Thank you Paul Krugman for finally starting to make a little sense after many many years now!  Smiley Very Happy 

 

I was a bit of a Krugman fan until he won the Nobel Prize and went totally off the rails as a political hack for Obama.  But thank you Krugman for saying what i`ve been saying that Smoot-Hawley did NOT cause the great depression and that 'protectionism" isn`t a bad word.  All the other countries in the world practice protectionism and for 30 years we`ve been the sole damned fools.

 

But as I`ve said 150 times, agriculture is 1% of GDP, we might bennefit a little from free trade, but most of the general economy suffers.  Latest numbers our trade deficit with China widened again last month, Carrier air conditioners moving to Mexico, Ford moving to Mexico they can keep Ford  but we`re getting screwed and agriculture is the only positive talking point for NAFTA and such...but again we`re 1%!!!

 

It`s high time to face facts, slap a tariff on crap coming in here and they will retaliate by not importing our grain...well put us farmers on welfare with setasides and grain reserves and direct payments if we don`t want farmers going broke.  The American worker simply can not compete with a world with near slave labor wages...it ain`t that difficult to figure out folks.   I don`t like welfare or going broke anymore than anyone else, but it`s time to face facts, farmers are just a pawn.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

What do you mean "put farmers on welfare"?  Y'all already get those things already and none of you are even close to going broke!!

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Honored Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

Farmers most certainly are NOT on welfare and we can, are and will go broke if prices don`t improve in the next 5 months.  I`m not complaining, I`m just painting you a picture of reality, we are so below the cost of production and the gross numbers are so big that it won`t take much and we`ll be in a farm crisis that would make the 80`s look like a Sunday school picnic.

 

But yeah, if we put a tariff on Walmart and Apple junk coming in, China and Mexico and Vietnam would retaliate and not buy corn and beans from us.  And corn would probably drop below $2 and beans to $5..that would spell disaster for farmers.  However, wake up and smell the coffee, as small as the ag sector is, we could put farmers on welfare that we had in the 80`s and 90`s.  Farm income at it`s highest was $120 Billion, I think it`s projected to drop to in the $50ish Billion range, well spend $50 Billion and put the farmers on "welfare" to make up for their trade loss.  Total annual government spending is $3.5 Trillion...taxpaypayers spending $50 billion is a drop in the bucket, especially since US farmers give Americans the cheapest food on the planet.

 

In getting rid of the $700 Billion trade deficit, that would create quality jobs for US workers.

 

But here is from your "Rex Allen" site where they are talking about bankers figuring potentially unatenable grain prices when helping farmers figure out their opperating statement...it makes the books look good for the examiner, but doesn`t look promising.

 

 

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=616315&mid=5151825#M5151825

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Veteran Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

Are you saying farmers don't get money from the FSA office and that they don't pay into it?  If that's true, they must have changed things in the past few months!

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Honored Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

I`ll educate you on this, because you`ve obiously been getting your information from some very stupid/hateful sources.   Okay the farm program that is now, there`s ARC or PLC.  PLC hasn`t paid anything I know of I never signed up for it, it`s a dooms day price senario...it may pay out at some point though.   ARC, I got $80 the maximum per acre on corn, it`s based on last years price of corn and yields in your specific county, many many counties got 0 or a little of nothing.  With ARC the payment this fall is projected at $50 per corn acre and may very well go to zero from then on.

 

To put that ARC payment of maximum $80 in perspective, I spend over $100/acre on seed alone ...$80/acre payment?  Whoopie!  and this year it`ll be about half that Woo-Hooo!

 

"What about crop insurance? What about crop insurances?"  some idiots will say.   Yeah what about crop insurance?  I haven`t collected a claim since 2013 and that barely covered the premium that I paid that year.  If I had all the money that I`ve paid in premiums back, I would gladly give back twice of all the claims I have ever had...and our crop insurance is supposedly "subsidized"?  I would drop it like a rock if it wasn`t "subsidized", I`ll tell you that right now.

 

So that is all the government welfare that farmers are getting, that is the extent of it presently.   Again I`m not complaining, to get back to the original thread, if for the greater good of the country this country did practice "fair trade' agriculture would get hurt, however as small and as vitally important we are, we could easily affordably be put on a farm program similar to what the French farmers have, for the much greater good of the US workforce.   That $700+ Billion trade deficit we presently have would go along ways in this country lifting people out of poverty, fixing roads and buying Ribeyes.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt


@BA Deere wrote:

I`ll educate you on this, because you`ve obiously been getting your information from some very stupid/hateful sources.   Okay the farm program that is now, there`s ARC or PLC.  PLC hasn`t paid anything I know of I never signed up for it, it`s a dooms day price senario...it may pay out at some point though.   ARC, I got $80 the maximum per acre on corn, it`s based on last years price of corn and yields in your specific county, many many counties got 0 or a little of nothing.  With ARC the payment this fall is projected at $50 per corn acre and may very well go to zero from then on.

 

To put that ARC payment of maximum $80 in perspective, I spend over $100/acre on seed alone ...$80/acre payment?  Whoopie!  and this year it`ll be about half that Woo-Hooo!

 

"What about crop insurance? What about crop insurances?"  some idiots will say.   Yeah what about crop insurance?  I haven`t collected a claim since 2013 and that barely covered the premium that I paid that year.  If I had all the money that I`ve paid in premiums back, I would gladly give back twice of all the claims I have ever had...and our crop insurance is supposedly "subsidized"?  I would drop it like a rock if it wasn`t "subsidized", I`ll tell you that right now.

 

So that is all the government welfare that farmers are getting, that is the extent of it presently.   Again I`m not complaining, to get back to the original thread, if for the greater good of the country this country did practice "fair trade' agriculture would get hurt, however as small and as vitally important we are, we could easily affordably be put on a farm program similar to what the French farmers have, for the much greater good of the US workforce.   That $700+ Billion trade deficit we presently have would go along ways in this country lifting people out of poverty, fixing roads and buying Ribeyes.


It is Truly amazing how many people curse farmers with their mouths full of food!

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Senior Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt


@schnurrbart wrote:

Are you saying farmers don't get money from the FSA office and that they don't pay into it?  If that's true, they must have changed things in the past few months!


I got zero money from the FSA.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

Oh, of course not!  

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Veteran Advisor

Re: ......and bashes Mitt

I guess it has changed in the last 4-5 years, right?  How much did you pay into that program that paid you $80/acre?