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Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

but its FREE in France

 

What more needs to be said?

In Bangalore, India, heart surgeons perform daily state-of-the-art heart surgery on adults and children at an average cost of $1,800. For the record, that’s about 2% of the $90,000 that the average heart surgery costs in the United States. And when it comes to the quality of the heart surgery, the patient outcomes are among the best in the world.

Why?

Simple: There is no financialization.  

You can't make someone else pay for your medical treatment in India.

Most families in India have no health insurance, and often need to borrow the money to pay for surgery.

And there are no guarantees on the debt either: You can't exactly repossess a heart operation!

Quality?  Better than in the United States.

How about drugs?  Let's talk insulin:

The medication had identical action to what's sold in the U.S. And its preloaded syringes, with a sophisticated calibrating mechanism, were more accurate in dose than any I've seen. What was most remarkable was the price — less than 10% of what it costs Americans with diabetes today. The combination of massive scale and appropriate pricing accounted for the 10-fold difference.

What's missing from this article?

Any mention of the fact that the only reason drug prices haven't dropped like a stone is that it's illegal to import that Insulin here to the United States.  Were it not Novartis and the other insulin makers here wouldn't sell a single dose at 10x the price, especially when their dosing systems are inferior.

I've often said that the total cost of medical care would drop by 85% if we simply enforced the law, specifically 15 USC Chapter 1, against all medically-related firms -- including pharma, hospitals, device makers and doctors.

This article is evidence that I'm being conservative and the actual drop might even exceed 90%.

Of course to do that you need to take all the monopolists -- which means damn near all of the doctors, hospital administrators, drug company executives, "pharmacy benefit managers" and more out back and........

 

 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231806

15 Replies
rsbs
Veteran Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

Good post.

 

A family friend flew overseas last summer to have a tumor removed. Cost was $800.

 

The quote for the US Surgery would have been $20000 or more. Her and her husband dont have health insurance and are also payng the Obama mandated penalty so they also get to pay for the free riders.

 

Ouch.

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: but its FREE in France

Medical tourism is definitely a growing thing, Obama's fascist health care plan was an attempt to fence the ranch. 

 

Catastrophic heath insurance should be the only thing people actually NEED to buy,  in what other area of the basic things in life does it require insurance to live day by day?    Without government enforced monopolies that is the way it would be, some peoples solutions to government enforced monopolies are socialist monopolies.    I doubt that is really going to cost less in the net.

elcheapo
Veteran Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

i think you are missing a few things here, that make a huge impact.....

india, in most respects is still a poor country......and labor is quite a bit cheaper.......you want to holler about the cost, so let's talk about that.

let's first start with the building.........the cost to build a modern hospital here and india is huge...first, consider the labor cost. here the

workmen get paid well on construction....far different to what their cost is.  The same with what they consider in their construction

spec's...far greater in the us...same with some the plumbing and electrical.

to go along with that, the healthcare workers wages are lower than here.....

as for state of the art......that isn't quite true.  yes, to the average person, "heart surgery" might seem high tech.....yes, heart surgery

is somewhat new......but we have been doing it for many years now. some of the procedures have not changed for some time,

so true, the same procedures are still used......but when things require more intense treatment, india is behind.....sure,

a ct machine is a ct machine to most......but not really.....while theirs are 8 or 16 slice, it's far more common to see 64 slice

and more and more are becomming 128 slice units.....granted, this is a bit overkill for a simple fractured leg, but for others

it is game changing.  same with mri machines.......and there are not many PET machines in india.

as for heart surgery, how far behind are thier bypass machines ?  and do they have the latest, and impella device.

this little mircle device is smaller around than your little finger, yet, when placed thru the great vessles in the groin, and up into

the heart it can pump blood and keep the body going, once the heart stops......while not wide spread yet in the

states, i would not want to guess how many, if any, in india....they save many lives

the same as dialysis, renal failure is growing world wide.....while true, the theory is the same, with the older equipment with the

newer equipment......the advances make the process more safe, efficent, and easier on the patient......most equipment in

india is 1 or two generations behind.

 

it's very hard to compair a hospital in india, with that of mayo clinic or md anderson.

 

while it is easy here to talk, when you loved one is laying in a bed, critically ill, would you rather than a doctor from india tell

you, "we've did everything we can do".....or......would you rather than a doctor walk in, and say, "we have options"........

 

with this, comes a cost.........our cost for nurses, buildings, equipment, operations, everything, is half in india...this isn't due to

pharma, insurance companys, or obamacare.......the cost of living and supplies are lower there, so stands to reason, their

medical care cost should be lower.

 

you may think all of this stuff isn't neeed, and too many too many tests are run..i'm not going to say that some doctors once in a while

run extra tests, just to make money, these kinds are few and far between......but,when there is no clear cause of the problem,

it is wise to run a few things....and these things cost money.....due to equipmentment cost, wages, etc.....

 

i guess you could look at it this way, someone looking from the outside in on agriculture, they will ask why do you need all the

equipment you have, why do you have gps in the tractor, a computer rate controler, a seed monitor.....why do you need all of that,

can't you drive in a stright line ?  can't you figure your pressure of the sprayer, and keep a constant speed on the sprayer,

after all, you are the driver........can't you get off your tractor and check the seed in the drill or planter......

and oh........you have a cab on your tractor......what about india ?

 

granted, i'll agree, medical care is expensive, and i wished it was lower.....oh how i wished it was lower, but i've been told by many

a equipment salesman, and seed salesman........you get what you pay for.

 

 

 

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: but its FREE in France

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

How do you know anymore, what's real - what's not? What sources can you trust, and if you trust them today, can you trust them tomorrow.

For me, I see no reason not to trust the media where I get my news. Who don't I trust?

Bannon

Our President

Most anyone our president has added to his cabinet

Republicans in general. They have shown me over the years that most of what they say are lies.

I believe what I see....

Tick Tock....

Jen
r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

I agree with you on the repubs. That's why Trump won. The conservative voters told the repubs to go to hell.

Samthehumble
Senior Contributor

Re: but its FREE in France

The article in question is in the usatoday.

 

Believe what you want.

jennys_mn
Veteran Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

It's a good thing Trump isn't playing the reality show Survivor. He apparently never learned how to play together, let alone how to establish allegiances. He was sure he would be able to bring everyone together. He has totally alienated the Dems, working on doing the same for the Repubs. But, he has his loyal core left. Probably for some obscure reason many of the rest of us don't see - mainly that they think he can bring back the 50's, and make white men in general great again. It's a pipe dream, thankfully NOT shared with the bulk of America.

But, what they hey. Bring back the 50's - or destroy America in the process.

He's the guy, that when he thinks he's going to get voted out, will burn the rice in the fire.

It's maybe time for a "blind side".

Tick Tock....

Jen
elcheapo
Veteran Advisor

Re: but its FREE in France

sam...i suggest you read my post and then read the article.....and notice some things.  First, it said heart procedures.....expand on that

subject...just as i said, most procedure have not changed for some time.  As a transplant, that is a rather low number, quite

a few are done in the united states.  Also, this may be the largest, most well known hospital in the country, thusly there will be

a large number of patients.

also, you said that there are a number of biosimular drugs........understand, the biggest cost of the drug is the research and development.

biosimular are just copies......and sounds like they are doing the same with equipment...copying what was developed.

as for electronic records, there is such a system available now and being used...part of the problem tho is HIPPA.

 

another thing you fail to note....people talk about people traveling for care.......understand, our data includes all patients......there

are many patients that are not able to travel due to medical conditions........some arrive in the american medical centers in

critical condtion, i doubt if you are when you arrive on a 747.

 

again, did they address the latest technology such as the impella unit, and the new "pipeline" and "net" devices used in

neuro cases, allowing things to be done without opening the head....what about the new arotic stents now used on AAA's ??

 

no mention

 

you never did address the cost factors.......compair what an RN is paid here, compaired to india.

 

so, do you want us to go to those pay levels, along with labor paid to build the buildings, along with what the lab and xray people

are paid......that will not work....these people would not afford to live in this country.........

 

really, you can't compair the two, due to cost structures.

 

yes, they said a procedure was $1800.....but what was it, how many hospital stays, labs done, pre-and post care.....

this is a nice "lookie here" article, but alot of things need to be address.........

 

the difference is between apples and oranges