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Senior Advisor

Re: heh heh heh

Canuck, just because you say it doesn't make it true. I can only speak for myself when it comes to religion. I don't worship Mary. I honor Her as the Mother of God the Son Jesus Christ. Jesus was very much human, conceived in Mary's womb though the power of God the Holy Spirit. She was not a mistress, She is the Mother of God's only begotten Son Jesus Christ. It is called the Holy Trinity, 3 entities but one God, His name is I Am Who Am. That is from Hebrew translation which can also be translated into Yahway or Jehovah. He had no beginning and will have no end. He is one God. Just as your body is made up of different organs but is one body. Would your body be complete without a heart? Or without lungs? Or without kidneys? Yet you are not confused about your different body parts being one body. So it is with God. And Mary is His Mother. Do you worship a very expensive coat more than your body if you wear ir to keep warm? Are you worshipping that coat if you take it to the cleaners more than you worship your own body. I think not. So it is with God and His Mother. I do not worship Her if I ask Her to pray for me. I acknowledge She knows Her Som better than I and believe Her prayers will help me to understand Her Son better than I can on my own.

 

As for the 1,000s watching the hockey game, is that not proof it was played. 1,000s reported the miracle at Fatima. That is pretty powerful proof that something took place. YOU might need faith that a miracle took place but for the 1,000s there it does not. They witnessed it. It re-enforced their faith. Probable even converted some nonbelievers, but that is 100% speculation on my part.

 

You still have NO, ZERO, scientific evidence there was anything before the universe evolved. All you have is an unproven theory yet you believe it because it is written by man in a science book. You have more "faith" than I do. I have evidence of a miracle from God but you have no evidence of your theory.

Senior Contributor

Re: heh heh heh


@r3020 wrote:

Canuck, just because you say it doesn't make it true. I can only speak for myself when it comes to religion. I don't worship Mary. I honor Her as the Mother of God the Son Jesus Christ. Jesus was very much human, conceived in Mary's womb though the power of God the Holy Spirit. She was not a mistress, She is the Mother of God's only begotten Son Jesus Christ. It is called the Holy Trinity, 3 entities but one God, His name is I Am Who Am. That is from Hebrew translation which can also be translated into Yahway or Jehovah. He had no beginning and will have no end. He is one God. Just as your body is made up of different organs but is one body. Would your body be complete without a heart? Or without lungs? Or without kidneys? Yet you are not confused about your different body parts being one body. So it is with God. And Mary is His Mother. Do you worship a very expensive coat more than your body if you wear ir to keep warm? Are you worshipping that coat if you take it to the cleaners more than you worship your own body. I think not. So it is with God and His Mother. I do not worship Her if I ask Her to pray for me. I acknowledge She knows Her Som better than I and believe Her prayers will help me to understand Her Son better than I can on my own.

 

As for the 1,000s watching the hockey game, is that not proof it was played. 1,000s reported the miracle at Fatima. That is pretty powerful proof that something took place. YOU might need faith that a miracle took place but for the 1,000s there it does not. They witnessed it. It re-enforced their faith. Probable even converted some nonbelievers, but that is 100% speculation on my part.

 

You still have NO, ZERO, scientific evidence there was anything before the universe evolved. All you have is an unproven theory yet you believe it because it is written by man in a science book. You have more "faith" than I do. I have evidence of a miracle from God but you have no evidence of your theory.


Well like I said, most confusing. You have gods all over the place but you just claim they are all one.

Many religions claim the believers should have no idols and then have many statues which they worship like idols.

But I won't stop you from believing if that is what makes you happy but I also will not stop pointing out the inconsistancies in what people 'believe'.


So Fatima's spectators just prove that there was a light show in the sky. How can that be a miracle? We all see strange and often very brilliant and pretty light shows in the sky. Weird clouds and strange formations in the clouds, never claimed any of the ones I have seen were a miracle.

 

You seem to have scientific theory mixed up religious superstition when you think there was nothing there before the universe as we know it came about.

Science claims there was energy there before and great change happened from which the universe we can see developed.

Read up on the theories of just how it happened. Read with an open mind.

Follow up some of the claims to se how they have been developed and backed up with years of observations and data.

Much more believable than "Let there be light" {Poof} now where the heck did I leave my sunglasses.


Senior Advisor

Re: heh heh heh

Again Canuck, we do not worship statues. Statues are nothing but stone or clay shaped like a person to reminds us of who they are. Do you show respect when some one raises your flag? Does that mean you worship the flag or is that respect for what your flag represents? What about a bust of some one? It is not the bust that you worship but it is a reminder of the person of whom it was made. So it is with us. We do not worship a statue of Mary holding the infant Jesus, or Joseph her husband, it is a way to remind us of the special people they were while here on earth.

 

The miracle of Fatima is more then the "light show". The blessed Mother appeared to the children on the same day of the month for 6 months in a row. No matter how much the adults tried to get the children to change their story they would not. The 3 children when separated told the exact same story over and over. Not once did their story ever change. The miracle of the sun was just the finale the Holy Mother promised them so the people would know they were telling the truth. Her appearance and the miracle were only possible because of Her Son Jesus Christ.

 

Now I have told you why I believe what I believe. The best you have come back with is it all just too confusing, yet you claim to understand a scientific theory in which some how there was a bunch of mass floating around forever and all of a sudden there was a big bang and then all of the mass came into some type of order to create the universe as we know it today. And then some how man evolved from something like apes and here we are today. You have absolutely no scientific evidence, only your faith in the people that came up with the theory.

 

As for your sunglasses......pray to St Anthony, the patron St of lost items, he has help me find many of wrenches I left laying in the dirt.Smiley Wink

Senior Contributor

Re: heh heh heh


@r3020 wrote:

Again Canuck, we do not worship statues. Statues are nothing but stone or clay shaped like a person to reminds us of who they are. Do you show respect when some one raises your flag? Does that mean you worship the flag or is that respect for what your flag represents? What about a bust of some one? It is not the bust that you worship but it is a reminder of the person of whom it was made. So it is with us. We do not worship a statue of Mary holding the infant Jesus, or Joseph her husband, it is a way to remind us of the special people they were while here on earth.

So Mary is one of the lesser gods.

I see her referred to as a 'goddess' and ads to sell statues of her in many different forms. Now if people are not worshipping her or her statue then why are they praying to her or her statue?

I do not know of anyone praying to a flag, unless of course it maybe had a picture labelled Mary on it.

 

The miracle of Fatima is more then the "light show". The blessed Mother appeared to the children on the same day of the month for 6 months in a row. No matter how much the adults tried to get the children to change their story they would not. The 3 children when separated told the exact same story over and over. Not once did their story ever change. The miracle of the sun was just the finale the Holy Mother promised them so the people would know they were telling the truth. Her appearance and the miracle were only possible because of Her Son Jesus Christ.

So there you go Fatima and 'The Blessed Mother' which I take it is code words for the goddess Mary. Whoa, the whole Fatima came about because of Mary BUT now her son is behind it and yet there is no evidence of anything other than strange clouds.

Did you know that eyewitness reports are suspect if all eyewitnesses have exactly the same story. It is certainly a very rare situation where 3 eye witnesses see or hear exactly the same thing. That usually comes about because of a prepared 'story'.

 

Now I have told you why I believe what I believe. The best you have come back with is it all just too confusing, yet you claim to understand a scientific theory in which some how there was a bunch of mass floating around forever and all of a sudden there was a big bang and then all of the mass came into some type of order to create the universe as we know it today. And then some how man evolved from something like apes and here we are today. You have absolutely no scientific evidence, only your faith in the people that came up with the theory.

You obviously have not been reading what I have posted about how the universe as we know came about and I am no expert so Just repeat what I have read of scientific descriptions. Now it would seem you are not going to even consider anything I post since I have an understanding about the true nature of religions and gods so maybe you should listen to this clip. Now it is unfortunate that it is one of those shows where the 'interviewer' tries to use the expert interviewee as a prop for his humour but give it a shot as they both profess a belief in one of the Christian gods.

http://www.brown.edu/Courses/BI0020_Miller/talks/colbert-miller.mov

And do you get a flu shot every year?

 

As for your sunglasses......pray to St Anthony, the patron St of lost items, he has help me find many of wrenches I left laying in the dirt.Smiley Wink

Actually evolution has left me with eyes that only need sunglasses on the brightest days in the winter with the ground covered with white snow.


 

Senior Advisor

Re: heh heh heh

Just one question Canuck. I have stated repeatedly that I Honor Mary as the Mother of God, I do not worship her. Why do you constantly try to tell me I worship her? I can see you are not serious about this conversation so I will no longer continue to bore you. Have a wonderful evening sir.

Senior Contributor

Re: heh heh heh


@r3020 wrote:

Just one question Canuck. I have stated repeatedly that I Honor Mary as the Mother of God, I do not worship her. Why do you constantly try to tell me I worship her? I can see you are not serious about this conversation so I will no longer continue to bore you. Have a wonderful evening sir.


Yes I understand what you say and sorry if I claimed you worshipped her BUT many do worship and pray to her AND have statues of her to pray to.

That is what I am saying there are so many different gods that it is hard to keep track of who believes in which one.

And of course I have no reason to 'believe' any of them are real.

Senior Advisor

Re: he he he

Canuck, how can you say people worship Mary when you do not know that to be true? I told you several time that I do not yet you kept insisting I do. I pray to Mary in the same manner I pray to by dad or any of the other Saints. They have no more power than granted to them by Jesus but I believe they may intercede with God on my behalf. After all, Mary is His Mother and my dad is now in his presence. Do you honestly believe God would be jealous of His own Mother? It is God alone I worship, the one true God, I AM Who Am. It is God alone who grants miracles. You want to have an intellectually dishonest discussion and I have no desire or intent to do so.

Honored Advisor

Re: he he he

Hey 3020, if these liberals would just ask a Christian...hmm what a novel idea! to actually ask and of course listen to what a Christian says they believe, before lambasting us on matters that they don`t have a clue.  I`ve run accross a number of folks in my life that once they get something in their head...it`s stuck there, no changing.  Folks like that need to get it right the first time or from then on they`re hopeless.  Bruce suffers from a little bit of that..aw hell who am I kidding, all the lberals are that way Smiley Happy

Senior Contributor

Re: he he he


@r3020 wrote:

Canuck, how can you say people worship Mary when you do not know that to be true? I told you several time that I do not yet you kept insisting I do. I pray to Mary in the same manner I pray to by dad or any of the other Saints. They have no more power than granted to them by Jesus but I believe they may intercede with God on my behalf. After all, Mary is His Mother and my dad is now in his presence. Do you honestly believe God would be jealous of His own Mother? It is God alone I worship, the one true God, I AM Who Am. It is God alone who grants miracles. You want to have an intellectually dishonest discussion and I have no desire or intent to do so.


No r3020 I do not think I said you worship Mary and you stated you do not.

Others do worship her. Why else would they bow down to her statue or picture, call her "mother of God" or "Queen of Angels" and pray to her if not worshipping her.

Probably I can never understand the convoluted mixture of Saints etc and how they fit in anyones belief in these gods but they sure look like gods and the actions by 'believers' look like worship to me.

Makes no sense to me to pray to a statue or some dead lady if there is only one god.

IF I believed in only one god then I would talk directly to the being that was in charge not a bunch of middle men or women or dead people. I guess that is why I will still consider it worship if someone prays to anything.

 

Definition of WORSHIP

1
chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2
: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power;also : an act of expressing such reverence 
 

 

Senior Contributor

Re: he he he


@BA Deere wrote:

Hey 3020, if these liberals would just ask a Christian...hmm what a novel idea! to actually ask and of course listen to what a Christian says they believe, before lambasting us on matters that they don`t have a clue.  I`ve run accross a number of folks in my life that once they get something in their head...it`s stuck there, no changing.  Folks like that need to get it right the first time or from then on they`re hopeless.  Bruce suffers from a little bit of that..aw hell who am I kidding, all the lberals are that way Smiley Happy


You are right BA I do not know anything about this 'believing' thing.

That is why I end up in these discussions but I have a hard time getting good honest explanations. You know explanations that can be backed up not just 'belief' with no evidence or solid facts.

One thing I find about religions are that they think they have everything figured out in whatever book they base their belief on. A book that was invariably written hundreds or thousands of years ago when man knew so little of his/her (of course religion is almost always a man thing from the beginning) world.

Then they will not allow new findings to be acknowledged even after lots of evidence is provided.

Your whipping boy 'liberals' usually are willing to look at new ideas and incorporate them when they prove useful and then you would fault them for being open minded and changing their minds.

Not many people 'get it right the first time' the best ideas come from working an idea around to improve it and allow it to change as the need arises in the future.