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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: moral virture question

In that case I think not, at least as far as their farm peers went because virtually all of them were in the program. So net negative in that regard, I'd say.

 

It is sorta like living in a run down trailer park and bragging that you don't need food stamps.

hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: moral virture question

If I legitimately needed food stamps I'd take them with the intention of not needing them as soon as was possible.

 

If I became unemployed and was getting UEI I don't know that I'd accept the first crappy job that came along just to avoid the indiginity of taking "charity"

 

...and thus serve the dual purpose of giving you guys a good anecdote about a lazy **bleep** who was sitting around watching daytime TV while living off the guvmint.

ollie2655
Senior Contributor

Re:depends on demorat or not

gop stll feels that way demortas think take what ever you can get ie the black thieves on the food stamp scam they breed that in to them

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re:that is where I differ

from most folks in that I notice that we all are human and some bad things happen to good people.

 

I had a taste of that humility back in the 80's. I didn't go broke but was severely bent. Self worth almost nil and too proud to tolerate failure or people knowing you are a failure. We did  liquidation of our livestock enterprise without bankruptcy and satisfied our lender that left us with a credit line of $45K. I still had my machinery and my sep IRA which I used to provide for my family and put a new crop in.

 

From that point on it has been up up up. $25 downstroke on 120 acres led the charge to a better future. 

 

So I know what it feels like being on the edge of bankruptcy and ai know the suffering which comes along with a broken spirit and a broken pride.

 

BTW. the biggest uplift to my self worth was a land lord offering to donate his half of the next years crop to help me out. What a lift to my self worth that they would go that far to help me through troubled times. I rejected his fine offer but his gift toward my self worth was priceless!

 

Those folks rented their land to me for 27 years and then sold the land to me.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: moral virture question


@Samnospam wrote:

That's something akin to looting I guess, but doesn't exactly answer the question.

 

Another moral virtue question.  Some people feel that treating morally with an immoral person is itself immoral.  Suppose for instance a person lobbys the government for a portion of your time and labor to be used at their discreation, should that person be treated with morally or should every attempt be made to rob that person blind at every opportunity?  To steal back what that person steals from you.


Morally you do not have the right to take what is not yours. You have every right to defend your property and to retrieve what has been taken but you do not have the right to steal the person blind unless everything he has was taken from you.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: moral virture question

Various ways you could retrieve what's been taken.  The government forcibly takes you time and labor, at the advocacy of a portion of the populace.  You could retrieve what's been taken by defrauding the government, or by simply eliminating income so as to leech your property back.  But the flaw here is that the people harmed include not just those who advocated you be enslaved but also other people just like yourself who are also enslaved.      

 

 

 

 

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: moral virture question


@Samnospam wrote:

Various ways you could retrieve what's been taken.  The government forcibly takes you time and labor, at the advocacy of a portion of the populace.  You could retrieve what's been taken by defrauding the government, or by simply eliminating income so as to leech your property back.  But the flaw here is that the people harmed include not just those who advocated you be enslaved but also other people just like yourself who are also enslaved.      

 

 

 

 


I don't consider the government a person in this example. Yes, I believe it is the duty of every American to keep as much money as possible from ever being placed in the hands of government. I do not believe we have the right to steal from a politician even though we believe he/she has stolen from us.

Samnospam
Advisor

Re: moral virture question

So you don't think I could morally take  a long ride in Jamie Dimon's jag?

kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: taxation is not theft. It's the law.

You believe that you have the responsibility to keep as much money away from the government as you can. To me that sounds like a nonpatriot. One that wants the benefits of our government or our society and doesn't want to pay for it.

 

As a citizen of this nation you agree to accept responsibility for the financing of this country. Freedom is not free and you need to pony up some cash to make it run. You don't like how governemnt spend your money, so what is new. I'd prefer they didn't buy those billions of dollars in military toys or didn't engage in toppling foreign governments or killing thousands of children in far off places.

 

However conservatives like a prepared military one that is just fixxing for a fight a chance to flex its almighty muscles through out the world. If not for JFK our generals would have us in a war for nuclear annilation. So while your grippinfg about some kids getting fed with food stamps, yours a my tax dollarsm are bombing innocents around the world.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: moral virture question


@Samnospam wrote:

So you don't think I could morally take  a long ride in Jamie Dimon's jag?


Just don't run over him.