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rsbs
Veteran Advisor

Re: more FBI abuse

Packard, interesting choice to bring up Cromwell.....did a quick google on him, and found that the communists claim him too.

https://www.socialist.net/the-english-revolution-and-the-role-of-oliver-cromwell.htm

I never took a history course after high school, and I would admit to not being up on history to the extent that I know and understand business. I need to read more about the Cromwell revolution in England, and the aftermath.

rsbs
Veteran Advisor

Re: more FBI abuse

I will watch the free movie on Tubi tonight and know it all. LOL.

User Reviews

 
This Country Will Be Well Governed If I Have To Do It Myself
12 July 2006 | by bkoganbing  See all my reviews

Cromwell was an ambitious undertaking for Director Ken Hughes and his two stars Richard Harris and Alec Guinness. He managed to capture the spirit of that part of the 17th century even if he didn't get all his facts right.

Like the many tellings of the story of Mary Tudor and Mary Stuart which have them in climatic meeting, we have Oliver Cromwell and Mary Stuart's grandson, Charles I meeting not once, but several times. They too never met, but the story demands it.

In point of fact Oliver Cromwell was a minor figure in the war between the Crown and Parliament until the Parliamentary Army lost a series of battles and looked like they were going down for the count. It was at that point that Cromwell emerged as a military leader. It turned out that this previously obscure member of Parliament who had no previous military training had a natural genius for warmaking. He turned that army around and eventually Parliament won.

Cromwell could have been George Washington at this point and retired to the farm, but he used his prestige and not as reluctantly as this film shows to make himself the military dictator of Great Britain with the title of Lord Protector.

The experience of Cromwell's reign scarred the English body politic for generations and to a large degree the American one as well. The whole struggle over which interpretation of Christianity would hold sway was something all of the ancestors of the American founding fathers had to deal with. That's when the idea came to them to have no established religion in America. Cromwell's large standing Ironsides Army enforcing his dictatorship led to a positive mania about no standing armies, no quartering of troops and even the right to bear arms. All this because of a collective memory of the Lord Protector.

Richard Harris is a lean and mean Cromwell who keeps saying he just wants to go back to the farm, but somehow winds up grabbing for more power. Alec Guinness is the perfect conception of that luckless monarch Charles I. Please note the relationship between Guinness and Queen Henrietta Marie played by Dorothy Tutin. Two things should be remembered there. First Henrietta Marie is the sister of Louis XIV of France, a monarch with considerable more power than Charles has. Note how Tutin is constantly berating Guinness for not standing up to the Parliament. He does and see where it gets him. Secondly Charles I is one of the very few English monarchs with no royal paramours. He and the Queen were actually in love and he knew her advice was from the heart if it proved disastrous.

Please note a couple of other good performances, Timothy Dalton as Prince Ruppert of the Rhine, Charles's nephew from Germany who actually was a whole lot smarter than he's shown here. And Robert Morley as the Earl of Manchester, one of Cromwell's rivals in the Parliamentary camp.

Oliver Cromwell died in 1558 quite suddenly and within two years the Stuart Monarchy was restored under Charles II, oldest son of Charles I and Henrietta Marie. The collapse of the Protectorate is a subject that English historians have some raging debates over. It was very much like the collapse of the Soviet Union in our time. The collapse of the Protectorate and the Restoration of the Stuarts was filmed in Douglas Fairbanks Jr.'s The Exile and really needs an up to date treatment.

Cromwell as a film is magnificently photographed and directed and actually won an Oscar for costume design. But the flaws in the story line are too many and don't use this film as Cliff's notes kids.


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sam1wiseone
Senior Contributor

Re: more FBI abuse

Red, Mike Duncan's revolutions podcast covers the English revolution in the first series.  It's on iheartradio.

Packard27
Senior Contributor

Re: more FBI abuse in relation to Oliver Cromwell

I hesitate to put a second comment related to Oliver Cromwell on the Ag site, but here goes.

The original quote of Cromwell to Parliament in 1653 was notable because it expressed the unvarnished anger of not just a single man, but rather an entire nation that had just concluded a very bloody civil war. Cromwell's proclamation to the power elites of his day might best be summarized by saying, "We've had it with you clowns. You've pushed us too d*mn far and now we are done with all of you. Go now. Go before something really bad falls upon you, your own families, and your estates. We mean it." And that is about it.

_______________

For historical context, the English Civil War occurs during a perfect storm of catastrophic events. The first is that begins toward the end of Europe's own amazingly destructive 30 Years War (1617-1647). Some historians think in terms of just the raw killing off of whole populations, the 30 years war was worse than even WW II.  Ponder that thought for a moment. Anyway, England was not directly involved in that war, but many, many English, Irish, and Scottish men hired themselves out as mercenaries for the different sides during the European war.

The problem occurs when all of these professional young soldiers return to jolly old England. With a lot of extra time on their hands and not necessarily willing to seek any regular working jobs, they begin to get into all sorts of mischief. Poor farmers & peasants with pitchforks are bothersome to a kingdom, but youthful upstarts who know how to ride horses, swing swords, work long bows, follow orders, and maneuver on a battle field are something entirely different. They make up the core of Cromwell's Roundhead army.

The second event is that the Civil War occurs right in the middle of the 500 year mini ice age. Climate is important because it shortened the crop growing seasons throughout the earth. This in turn caused many consecutive years of severe food shortages and famine in places like Great Britain. Ordinarily, revolutions and civil wars do not begin when times are fat and everyone is more or less content. No, it is the lean times when people are going hungry that causes them to seek out violent alternatives to change or abandon intolerable status quos. That was England in the early 1640-51.

Finally, King Charles I himself proved to be an utterly insufferable idiot and incompetent of a monarch. The man gave new meaning to the phrase, "My way or the highway." As European monarchs went, Charles was especially capricious, arbitrary, draconian, and just plain unfair to all of his subjects.  For reasons that are too many to list, Charles eventually lost his head to Cromwell and his Roundheads more because his own men just got tired of having to nursemaid his unpredictable and entitled habits. Hence, why Cromwell's righteous anger was leveled toward a parliament that was still suspected to harbor Royalist sympathies even years after Charles' execution.

All together, the English Civil War proved a nasty piece of work for all concerned. The lesson, I think is this. If you push a people too far and do so under the right (wrong?) circumstances, some really unimaginable and unpleasant things can happen to everyone. Not that any of that might ever happen here, I guess.

 

aljessen61
Senior Contributor

Re: "Failed to apply the standard ...."


@rickgthf wrote:

".....  individuals who needed to come into the office to make a repair".  What,  so just let the Chinese spies come in and bug the computers at will?

  I don't know about you but in the course of my life, the FBI has done a routine investigation of me at least a couple of times.  If you apply for a government job above a certain level or a certain area, you can expect the FBI to check on you, that's who does it.

  The question is, what are you hiding, your 24/7 QAnon obsession?

  


Top secret Ricky!  What a joke.

r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: more FBI abuse

Pack, the problem is those who have the authority to fire the FBI are the very ones who have weaponized it.