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Senior Advisor

Re: refigious question

There is no need for punishment. Jesus death took away all sins for those who accept His gift of pardon.

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Senior Contributor

Re: refigious question


@r3020 wrote:

There is no need for punishment. Jesus death took away all sins for those who accept His gift of pardon.


So you are saying there is no hell.

But why does the bible talk about punishing people for so many 'sins'?

Indeed even to punishing following generations for the sins of one generation.

The bible does call for punishment.

Maybe you do not believe that part but it is there.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: refigious question

To Wehav:

In simplest terms, the Jews didn't kill Jesus.  Corrupt leaders led the cause to have the Romans put him to death.  Even the Roman official in charge saw no reason to condemn him to death, but the Jewish leaders stirred up the crowd, and got them to do it.  Jesus was sent to be a sacrifice for the sins of the belivers, but I also think it was to spotlight the corruption of the Jewish Church at the time.  The Pharacises (NO idea if I spelled that right) were more concerned in keeping their power (political power, wealth, influence) than they were doing the right thing.  By killing Jesus, it brought their wrongs out in the open.  I also think that showed the people the errors of the ways of some in the Jewish Church.

 

To Canuk:

The Bible does talk about the punishment of sin to fall not on just the sinner, but his children, and his children's children.  However, my belief is that this punishment is to come from God, and not us.  Because of this, my personal faith would have nothing to do with punishing the Jews as a people, but to deal with them on an individual basis, as I would anyone else.  To punish someone for something I have no proof they had any involvement in is a judgement left up to God, according to my beliefs.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: refigious question

No, there IS a Hell, Jesus just gave a way out of it for his followers.

The Bible calls for Judgement, and if judgement calls for punishment, it will be doled out.  However, we have an ally in Jesus, to get us a pardon, so to speak, for punishment for our sins.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: refigious question

If you were in a situation where either you would perish, or all your children, and loved ones would perish instead, which would you choose?

 

People were distancing themselves from God, and were spending an eternity away from God because of it.  There were laws written for people to follow, in order to be with God (Jewish law) but the religious leaders at the time were corrupting the laws to their own benefit.  God had already tried forcing pepole to be good (great flood, sodom & gomorrah are two examples) and it still wasn't working.  So, he played his ace-in-the-hole.  He sent his son down, in human form, to give people an example they could look to for salvation, and those who choose to follow him, can be forgiven of their sins.  Forgiveness is needed, because none of us can truthfully say they never sinned.

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Senior Advisor

Re: refigious question

Oh yes there is a hell. It is for those who choose it. Vengeance is mine sayith the Lord. It there is any punishment to be handed out He will take care of it.

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Senior Contributor

Re: hell and punishment

r3020 & NEB; although I don't think you realize it you are agreeing with my post that your religion has built right into it the transferring of punishment.

To begin you assume you are all guilty of 'original sin',  I am not schooled well enough to know what the heck that means except you are guilty because Adam and Eve ate 'the apple of knowledge'?

Guilt transferred forward.

Now you also 'believe' that the punishment will be transferred to someone else, Jesus.

That is what I was thinking about, your religion being able to transfer the blame for things and the punishment through multiple generations.

Therefore hate of the Jews is built into your religion. Even all these generations later.

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Senior Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

Jesus died so that all could be saved, including the Jews. All we have to do is accept His gift of pardon. There will be no punishment for those who do.

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Senior Advisor

Re: refigious question

What kind of father would subject his son to such suffering and death could he avoid it?  Instead he offers up his son to satisfy some egotistical fanatacism that is in his own mind.

 

All of the pain and suffering in this world could be over in a millisecond if the lord almighty was indeed a kind and loving God as he has been portrayed. He is a vindictive old phart that will use intimidation to win over followers.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: hell and punishment


@Canuck_2 wrote:

r3020 & NEB; although I don't think you realize it you are agreeing with my post that your religion has built right into it the transferring of punishment.

To begin you assume you are all guilty of 'original sin',  I am not schooled well enough to know what the heck that means except you are guilty because Adam and Eve ate 'the apple of knowledge'?

Guilt transferred forward.

Now you also 'believe' that the punishment will be transferred to someone else, Jesus.

That is what I was thinking about, your religion being able to transfer the blame for things and the punishment through multiple generations.

Therefore hate of the Jews is built into your religion. Even all these generations later.


 

 

Where you are getting it wrong is that it is not up to us to decide who is to be punished, nor what the punishment should be.  The Bible plainly spells out that the Judgement is not up to us.

It also plainly spells out that if we are to love everybody.  Jesus would speak to prostitutes, to try to get them to mend their ways, not to punish them, or hate on them, but out of love, to help them find salvation.  The bible says not to put judgement on someone, unless you are willing to be judged by the same yardstick yourself.

 

A hatred of Jews isn't built into MY religion, although I can't speak for any others.  We are probably some of the stronger supporters of Israel & Jewish rights in general.