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Veteran Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

AHHHH, now I see what you are getting at.

The problem is, if you have ever told a lie, used the Lord's name in vain, coveted, or so much as took some office supplies home, you are not 100% pure.  That is why we ALL need Jesus' help, because I don't think any of us can say they are 100% pure.

I need the forgiveness for what I did, as does everyone else.

 

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Veteran Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

I was just using the Canada thing as an analagy.  If you are happy living here for a few years, and that is it, I guess I can't help you.  If you want to spend Eternety in a better place, I'm willing to help any way I can.  You aren't being 'punished' because of the sins of others, you would be 'rewarded' for choosing the proper life's path.

 

As for disagreeing about Adam & Eve, the last professor I saw on the news talking about Evolution believes that all humans are descendants of a common female, who his team call 'Eve', so I guess they gave us at least a tiny victory LOL.

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Senior Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

Neb, the Canadian analogy was one of the best I have ever seen.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

Well, we can always say you got kicked out of Canada, and forced to live in Death Valley, if that makes it easier to understand :^)

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Senior Contributor

Re: hell and punishment


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

AHHHH, now I see what you are getting at.

The problem is, if you have ever told a lie, used the Lord's name in vain, coveted, or so much as took some office supplies home, you are not 100% pure.  That is why we ALL need Jesus' help, because I don't think any of us can say they are 100% pure.

I need the forgiveness for what I did, as does everyone else.

 


I think the problem we have here is you think everyone 'believes' in this heaven nad hell stuff.

For those of us who see the truth of the universe and how it works there is no substance to these beliefs so no need to have someone else die for us to live in this magical state for ever.

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Senior Contributor

Re: hell and punishment


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

I was just using the Canada thing as an analagy.  If you are happy living here for a few years, and that is it, I guess I can't help you.  If you want to spend Eternety in a better place, I'm willing to help any way I can.  You aren't being 'punished' because of the sins of others, you would be 'rewarded' for choosing the proper life's path.

 

As for disagreeing about Adam & Eve, the last professor I saw on the news talking about Evolution believes that all humans are descendants of a common female, who his team call 'Eve', so I guess they gave us at least a tiny victory LOL.


I understand the genetic diversity, or at least lack of it in humans, is a sign that all humans originated from just a few individuals not that many generations ago.

They of course do not know if this was because of a big die off of humans just prior to this or the final mutation which led to what we as humans are now.

As to refering to this individual as Eve, i expect is because that name is used in the jewish mythology that tries to explain the origins of life, and of course humans.

Remember the name of 'Lucy' was given to a skeleton found a few years ago which is considered a link in human evolution.

And the recent skeletal findings in South Aftrica led to the name Karabo being given to the young male skeleton. Karabo meaning answer in a local language.

Humans just like to put names on things. 

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Senior Contributor

Re: hell and punishment


@Nebrfarmr wrote:

Well, we can always say you got kicked out of Canada, and forced to live in Death Valley, if that makes it easier to understand :^)


Ok but I would not likely stick around Death Valley but move on to better things elsewhere.

Sort of like my ancestors who were 'kicked' out of North Carolina to Nova Scotia and then moved on to a better life in Upper Canada which later became known as Ontario, a province in Canada when Canada became a country. 

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Senior Contributor

Re: refigious question

Jim - that is the classic cop out.  Why do you all insult the intelligence of non believers by "wishing them luck, hell has a reservation for you" and all the other pathetic threats.  You are an intelligent man and a good thinker.  The problem I have with that is why you would continue to believe that when you know the opposite is the truth.  You know it but you will not admit it.  I am tired of the superiority complex you godbotherers think you have over atheists and I find it oppressive coming from a decent man like you.

 

This reference to your "soul".  Further to my non belief in god I wish to state uncategorically there is not one part of the human anatomy which resembles a soul .  There has been countless searchs through autopsies and no evidence has ever been found of anything like it in the body or ever was.   When a person dies he/she is referred to as  Joe Blogg's body.  This is totally untrue.  What it means from the religious perspective is his soul has left him and is in another place.  What remains is his body.  This is another myth as the remaining part is in fact the same person and body which existed before he died.  There is and never has been a separation of the body into two parts upon death. To take it one step further, if everybody has a soul, has the souls of suicide bombers been taken from their bodies and in the same place as the guys from 9/11.  Or is it only reserved for the believers when at the point of death, they sit bolt upright and say  "beam me up scottie".

 

None of your arguments stack up and you would be well advised to refrain from trying to influence people to believe lies, myths and witchcraft.

 

 

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Senior Advisor

Re: refigious question

The only way for a soul to get to heaven is through Jesus Christ. My fear is the suicide bomber is lost for an eternity but only God knows his fate.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: hell and punishment

No, I realize quite clearly that there are many who have no belief in any of this (the Bible even talks about this).  When I said I was getting it, was that I was starting to understand your point of view, that you think that Christians believe we are bieng punished for what someone else did.  That isn't the case, I don't believe I am being 'punished' any more than you think you are (although I will admit that there are plenty of Bible-thumpers that carry this too far, and talk about people getting 'smited' for so much as looking at you wrong). 
My simplified point of view is this:  We are all on Earth to live our life.  How we live it determines where will will wind up.  Unless one can say they have never committed even the tiniest sin, they aren't 'pure' enough to get to Heaven on their own, which is why Jesus was sent to help us.

 

I once heard a little story on Paul Harvey's radio address.  He tells the story of God and the Devil arguing over who gets people's souls.  The devil was bragging how he was taking over the world, and Jesus spoke up, and asked what it would take to get the devil to give up claims to the souls of his followers.  The devil laughed and said, all your blood, sweat, and tears.  Jesus said 'DEAL'.