Alfalfa Ground

[Jameshh1964]

Takeall in Kansas? I thought that only occurred in wet places like the Willamette Valley. I learn something every day! I worked on take all research at OSU in the late 1980s.
Regarding alfalfa followed by wheat: our organic growers follow this rotation frequently to reduce weeds in the wheat and get a nitrogen boost from the alfalfa. The wheat almost always has volunteer alfalfa in it, but not enough to worry about. The alfalfa seed pods clean out easily from the wheat at the cleaners. It is not of course no till because the alfalfa would take over if not sprayed or tilled.

[sw363535]

Shaggy 

You got some good response on this --- clayton 58 may have more experience on it than I do.  Most of the alf I have taken out went back to corn instead so I am not sure, we always strip tilled the first year to break up the compacted root mass of the alfalfa., but I can tell you that 58 is right, alfalfa is hard to kill with herbicide alone, especially if the regrowth is not healthy for herbicide contact. 

 The soil structure is going to be fine either way, but I would consider a discing of the top 1.5 to 2 inches to help the wheat have good soil contact and slow alfalfa regrowth.  and ripping it out sounds better to me.  Alfalfa is a jungle of roots that may limit wheat's ability to establish itself.

Clayton58, what about alley in the fall or during the winter to limit the alfalfa spring growth?  Would that be effiective?

We inherited some RR alfalfa once and that was a mess trying to get it killed.  Like trying to stop established bindweed.

[Shaggy98]

This isn't RR alfalfa, but we've used roundup on it every year since year #2.  Could it be like most pesky weeds and build up its own resistance?  I was curoius whether or not the early spring applied Finesse would be enough to hold back the alfalfa until the wheat greened up enough to hopefully choke it out.  I'll probably have it in wheat for 2 years before returning it back to alfalfa.

[sw363535]

I have not tried it.

[Shaggy98]

Another option, very short seasoned milo planted about last week of April or 1st week of May (depending on soil temps) and hopefully harvest by last of August or early September and right back to winter wheat in late September or early October.  This option might be a little aggressive for Central Kansas dryland, but it is river bottom ground if that helps any.

[farmerguy89]

Alfalfa isn't competitive with wheat.. Not much to worry about here guys... Dicamba will give good control: keep roundup rates high as per label... Fall control is best. You will never ever get 100% control first try, but 95-99 is possible

[sw363535]

farmerguy is on the money.

milo -------- I have never seen wheat behind milo work very well unless a plow is involved and early.   I would avoid that idea ---better the original idea but kill will be hard to get if you hay it and want the wheat in quickly.

It is the age old problem of alfalfa.  You have to sacrafice a crop to get it started and some of the last alfalfa crop to get it stopped.

[Longcreekfarms]

2,4-D and Banvel has always worked for me. But going into corn in the spring. Never tried wheat.
One shot and done. I don't see why it wouldn't work if you can maybe cut it a few days early and get some re growth on it before frost. I use the same mix in pasture in the fall for thistle and cockleburs. During thistle rosette stage.
Same issue here with growing srw behind milo that was chopped for silage. Usually a 10-15 bu yield drag versus drilling in bean stubble.
Side note... Does anyone use Peak herbicide in hard wheat out there? Works great for me in soft. Usually don't need any herbicide at green up with N.

[farmerguy89]

Here's the link to the supporting data that shows preplant 24d causes yield loss... You'll also notice that banvel does too, but not as bad. Just scroll through

http://www.ridgetownc.uoguelph.ca/research/documents/sikkema_Wheat.pdf

Maybe applying early and waiting to plant will reduce chances of injury.

Sorry I just feel strongly on this.

[JacobMcCandless]

See the first image does not follow the second. Secondly you cannot kill dandelions with *herbicide*.
Lastly they tested herbicide on "wild carrots" which has not been of great concern since I don't know when.

Albeit carrots could be a menace.  eyaheyah