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ECIN
Senior Advisor

N Study - 2013



I will now start from the beginning of the season and work to today .

Planting date was May 2 / 2013 --
Corn was Channel 214-13 Double Pro
Pop. was 35,000
10 gallons applied with planter - 2 by 2
Ground conditions - would have been better if I could have waited another day -but rain was calling in the near future .
No-till in to bean stubble
Planter was a Kinze 3600 ADS

This plot as put togather by Dr.s Jim Camberato and Bob Nielsen from Purdue

Pictures of small corn was taken May 22 - 9:35 A.M.


It was alittle wet to start with but corn took off good .
my documtims 470.jpg

In this plot there was rates of 90 units - 150 - 180 and 210 - all put on at V-3 - Also in this plot was the Cornell study of there Adapt-N program and my 2 pass system - ( I put on 30 gallons of 28 at V-3 and then the second at V-8-9 )
I was able to go head to head with the 180 straight rate to see if what I was doing helped or hurt .
These rates were replicated 4 times across the field 4 times - this was a large plot - it covered around 31 acres and were full length rows .

This photo is at V-3 - all reps was applied at this time execpt the Adapt N reps .
my documtims 489.jpg

It as at this point that I first saw to Ken - thats me - there may be a problem with the Adapt-N way of thinking - We started to get very hot thur the day and the Adapt-N corn was taking a beating in the heat - it and the 90 unit rate was rolling up in the day time heat - as to the other rates that were not .
I need to back up for a second here - The Adapt N - is a computer generated model that at a given time will recommond the amount of N that is needed to raise the corn crop - On this plot they whated me to apply all the recommonded rated at V-8 - No other N untill that point other than what was applied with the planter . BTW ( they ) are Cornell .

At this point I e-mailed Cornell about putting on a small amount of N - there reply was it will be OK - In my book - I don;t like to see this early corn being stressed in this way - from lack of N - the roots needed to be heading south to find more water as it dryed up - But this is just me talking out loud .

I would check this field at least one day a week some times 2 or 3 times - it was right next to the shop and had to look at it all the time - lol

To me the 210 rate - was the class act from the get go - talk about eye candy ! The straight rate of180 and my 2 pass 180 ws pretty equal all season . The 90 and A-N looked like a sick puppy - bu eye candy was not the point here - the N use to Bu.s per acre was the name of the game . I personally like eye candy ! Plus it was right along a very busy road - you know - neighbors drive by .

Now on to my second pass and the A-N pass - Mine was at V 8-9 and the A-N was a full collar behind - it was at V-7-8 - they were callingfor rain and I pulled thr trigger - about a half hour after i got done - i got a good 1/2 inch of rain - couldn't have timed it any better .

 

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18 Replies
ECIN
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

The first picture is of me putting on the second pass off my 2 pass deal - this was at V-8-9 the other picture is of the A-N program a V-7- 8 - applied the same day - believe it was June 27 .
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The rest of the season was just me walking and waiting for the BIG day - to harvest and see what happens .

The next to pictures were taken Aug. 3 - the first one is one the A-N - the leafs are showing the story here - short N and to the other photo of the 210 eye candy rate .
my documtims 524.jpg
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ECIN
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

Now to the weather - we did NOT get one big rain all season ! Think the best was like .65 - most were a quarter or so , We did NOT lose one oz. of N and used up all in the soil - that is or may be why the 90 units did so good .

I must Note that the results of the A-N are of question on my part - We must add all info into this model - and we over looked one part - the A-N model said we need to apply 108 to 118 and I put on 120 - the Info that Purdue got from the model -showed that we only needed 40 to 70 units !

This is one of the bad things about the A-N - it will only tell you what you enter in for your field info . But the interesting thing is that -both models was well below what we put on - on my part - it was 60 units below .

The most outstanding part - to me was putting on the A-N rate that late was that corn will really respond to late season N - like if you didnt get any on because of wet ground or lost some from heavy rain fall - don't give up on it - apply N !

This was truely the most interesting on farm study I have done -to date .

My take away - The A-N program has great promise but needs some work to work on Indiana soils - type of weather - But with open minds and help from these kind of studies - they will be on track -

This is the type of info that they can provide with this model - like just how much N does Ken need to use > I personally would like to put on 30 gallons on all acres - then run there app . and it will take in the weather to date - then amounts of N applied - early N get's the corn off to a good start = NO STRESS and then run the app to put on the last amount to get the optimumal N rate .

This study come up with the optimum rates for both yield and dollars for N - to me you have to do this work along with other studies to find that info out .

I can not say enough about the staff at Purdue with putting up with my DSI questions - Great people to work with - But we here in Indiana are very lucky to have this kind of researsh going on here -- on Farm - not only that but having the Purdue Crop Diagnostic Training and Research Center = Class ACT !

Can't wait for next year to come around - as we are planning to put out another N- Plot - IF they will have me back !

Have a great day !

my documtims 577.jpg

 

 

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ECIN
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

I did get the final numbers for Dr. Camberato

 


-------- --- --------      Total N        yield --- ------ --       Nitrate N

90 + 11 =                  101 ---       194 bpa--------------- 333
Adapt N 120 + 11 =   131 -----    207 bpa---                260
150 + 11 =                161 ------    215 bpa ---------     1225
180 + 11 =                191 -------  221 bpa----------     1780
210 + 11 =                221 -------  223 bpa -------        1788
2 pass 180 + 11 =     191 ------- 219 bpa ---             1813

Don't hold me to this - but think the number in the nitrate test should be close to 1800 for optumim .

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Re: N Study - 2013

I don't think the high rates are worth it. To me it looks like the rewrd is small for the risk.

You got a bunch of rain too didn't you? N loss year?

I'm thinking most years 100N wins economics If we replicate. Probablg 130.

I've seen a bunch of n studies from 09 and 11 that say to go up to 250 in those cases. In 11 I top dressed it in June and the 1st rain washed all the n away. Needed 250n to win!
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r3020
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

Ken. Great thread. Now, which rate are you going to use on your acres this year that are not going into this year's test plot.

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ECIN
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

89 - Yes we had rain early - April and then on and off threw May - I was determined that we lost all the map that was applied early = 30 units that was spread on top before planting  . But as far as the plot - there was no N lost due to weather ( heavy rain )

 

This was proven with my head to head trail of my 2 pass , split app of 30 gallons = 180 units - versus the straight rate of 180 at V 3 or so . If you look at the results - you will see that the straight rate - at V-3 even beat my 2 pass system last year , by about . 95 or a bu. - mainly because of lack of a heavy type rain and the corn squeezed every oz . of N out of the ground .

 

There are many types of ground in Indiana - with these plots - they are able to better define the N rates for the ground in my area - like that 2 hundred something they found was best N rate but near W. Lafayette they would only need 180 tops = there ground is a lot better than mine .

 

R3020 - For now Ron - I planning on changing my 2x2 starter program to a 50/50 blend of 28% and 10-34-0 at 15 gpa - then still do the split app. at V 3 and at V-8 or so .

 

If it works out right - this plot will be just North of Dads , so if your over at Morristown - stop by ole buddy and I will give you a tour at ??? No Cost ! lol

 

Have a good one

 

eci

 

 

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Blacksandfarmer
Esteemed Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

Ken, thanks for the N study results. After about the 150 pound mark, corn seems to need more N per bushel, but at the same time there's more return on the 210 + 11 rate if looking at N alone. How do you fertilize your own fields? Are you fertilizing 221 pounds of N across all of your acres or are you reducing the N amount to reduce risk? Thanks.

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ECIN
Senior Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

Sandy - Lasyt year , If I remeber right - The optumim N rate for 13 was ? like 200 units - My total was 191 , The tear before the optumim N rate was 190  , optumim Being the best rate for return in dollars - The high yield rate was 228 last year ,

 

You asked about my rates - I will go with the same deal   of around 191- 195units  of N , To lower risk then I would be lowering  , income as well , maybe ? Depends on  weather , That is why I sidedress twice to spread  risk or I should say manage risk of loseing any N , What I'm tring to do is raise just a good of corn on a lower rate but yield up with the higher rate , if that makes sence

 

Last year we had , i would say . as close to zero N loss as we ever had - that is why the 180 + 11 rate ws the same as my 2 pass , For N management - it was close to perfect last year = no heavy rains is season after N was applied .

 

BTW Thanks for the nice talk on the phone yesterday , enjoyed it !

 

Ken

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Blacksandfarmer
Esteemed Advisor

Re: N Study - 2013

Thanks for the advice and plot results. You got me talked into sticking with a pre-emerge in corn. Talked to the chemical rep today; I plan on going w/ Breakfree ATZ + Instigate. Dupont has a rewards program that pays for the roundup if we need to spray post-emerge. Hope you got the closing wheel job squared away.

 

Thanks again Ken.

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