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JimMeade
Veteran Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

So, BA, how should agriculture deal with immigration?

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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

Hey Jim, first and foremost agriculture and all US businesses should follow the law.   Just because some Bigshot that milks 3,000 cows can`t find enough "Bevis & Buttheads" to hire, that doesn`t give them the right to break US immigration laws...all that does is cost shift their labor costs onto the US taxpayers.

 

This whole ag business model that the only way they can make it is to get big, big, big and the hire the cheapest labor is really messed up.  There`s good reasons that the US has borders and laws, what`s at risk is the entire country, way more than some greedy clown that looks at the country as his personal monopoly game.

 

I would say if you`re a farmer that has grapes to pick or cows to milk, if you can`t hire enough legal Buttheads, then pay more, reduce the size of your operation, look at mechanizing your operation so the Bevis`s that you do hire can handle the workload.  We could have a law (if US workers are really this lazy) where we have a work permit, where foreign workers come in temporarily for a 6 month term and then get paid and go back to their home country and another shift comes in for the next 6 month stint.

 

See, this complaining about how they can`t find workers and we have to have amnesty and "we were aaaaall immigrants once" and all that crap.  Is a one generation "solution" that will change and ruin the country in the process.    

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ncwinn54
Frequent Contributor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

I would really like to see a genuine guestworker program, for people who are willing to work in animal agriculture and industries like packing and other forms of further processing.  Seasonal stuff like tobacco has its own solutions already in place.

 

There should be an easily accessible database of approved people.  We should be able to go online and match photo ID of a documented worker.  Honestly, how do you know if a Green Card is legitimate, or a SS# is real? 

 

It should be easy enough to jerk a credential,  if a person is convicted of a crime.  We really do need to get the criminal element deported.  It's a big problem in many places already. 

 

There should be a system for reporting abuses of these workers, too.  Many are poorly treated and it is a national shame. 

 

 

 

 

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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

Well if we fingerprinted guest workers, then there won`t be any "sharing" or selling of identity cards.  As a bonus the prints would already be on the books in the investigation of a crime. 

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k-289
Esteemed Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

BA  -  I  think  it  was  the  movie  plot  that  was  closer the  point  -  Field  of  Dream - z  -  Build  It  &  They  WILL  COME  seems  to  be  the  analogy &  more  where  they  come  from - I guess --- 

 

 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

Calling us folks who work on farms "Bevis & Buttheads" is real progress toward a solution.  Or demonizing the 3000 cow owner also sounds real liberal...

From there on your right BA....... enforcing the law and living by the law is essential.... I doubt that 20% of the population actually does.

 

Wait a minute............We could have a law (if US workers are really this lazy) where we have a work permit, where foreign workers come in temporarily for a 6 month term and then get paid and go back to their home country and another shift comes in for the next 6 month stint......

 

I got news for ya we already got those laws.  And hundreds of workers come every year...  It works well. ( US workers are taught they failures if they have to work.... and will run from a farm job)  Because to get one of those workers you have to advertise the job and hire anybody from the US who applies and can physically do it.  I got so sick of illegals at my front door that I finally worked my way into the program, and it is discouraged by the labor department every step of the way, because they protect US workers............ then can't find any...... 

I look at hundreds of resumes from outside the US every year... They don't lie to me, they don't have fake documents.(the previous 20 years I saw fake documents on 50% of my interviews--25% on legal US guys...drugs and driving, and legal issues, family problems.)  I just need 8-10 guys.  These H2A guys are here 9-10 months and take home 30-40K...... I don't think it is cheap.

 

And BA that last  2 sentences .........  indefensible.    We in agriculture as well as those of us who draw a paycheck will have to compete with the rest of the world one way or another...... If you think buying our grapes and milk from Mexico is the answer..........When did you become so liberal.  Who sold you on it being wrong to improve your business?   

 

-- at the risk of hearing the music that comes with Mr. Douglas's speech, I'll bow away from this one.... but I am telling you..... your not thinking it through IMO..... I am doing what I am doing because I got tired of breaking the law.  

 

And don't pay enough???????  I have paid a lot of different prices and finally offered a share of my farm to a young, smart, capable man.  And after a few good years the markets started down and he found he could not stay in a new pickup while somebody else worked, he hired a lawyer and asked for his share of the farm in cash, figured he had it coming after 6 years......  So feel sorry for labor in this country if you want.... they have been surrounded by good opportunities for too many years.  How can you miss in a country that will pay for integrity every time.

 

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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

Hey SW, the reason I said "Bevis & Butthead" is because that`s what Bigshots in editorials and stories in the Farm Bureau Spokesman imply that there are jobs that "Americans won`t do", the American worker somehow won`t do "Mike Rowe jobs".  Well, if they take advantage of welfare "$38,000/yr" that`s a lot of dough to sit on their butt, I imagine it`d have to be $45,000 or more to get them doing jobs that Americans should do.

 

Human nature is what it is and this generation didn`t keep score at their tee-ball games and everyone got trophies and juice boxes. 

 

But SW, if you hire foreign workers that do the job and you pay them and in 9 months they go home...I have no beef with the way you are doing it, that`s the way it should work. That isn`t the way every large dairy operates though, the Bigshot complains that he doesn`t have the time or resources to check everyone`s legal status and might as well grant them amnesty, simply because he`s too lazy to worry about his worker`s legal status.  I`m sure that many would just as soon there was a open border and all they had to do was blindly hire without fear of breaking the law...yeah, good for them but not so good for the country. And that really gets my hackles up. 

 

I will say that the foreign workers in agriculture are probably the cream of the crop.  The toilet scrubber/dope dealers are probably lower on the totem pole.  But yeah this country has a problem, truck driver jobs go unfilled because applicants can`t pass the urine test.  Well, it`s a vicious cycle, they have dope in their system and can`t get a job to get straightened out.  Then the social worker shows up with a list of government programs they`re legible for and no incentive to be anything other than Buttheads.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

The H2A program is good and it works............... Except........ The labor department fights it all the way.  It is successful because the details written in demand that you must advertise and offer jobs to US workers and if none reply they are required to approve.  The only way labor allows it to work is because we seldom if ever get an applicant. Think about it.   Who will work 9-10 months at 60 hours a week for $14-16 an hour(free housing, utilities, and travel expenses) ---- everybody here wants less hours and more $$$....

On the other hand WHO the h...l works a 40 hour week except those federal employees who pad their hours to get 40.  My banker works more, my lawyer, my accountant, my doctor,  a gas and oil worker, insurance salesman, store manager, even health workers often work overtime.  And no body farming successfully is going home at 5pm ......... 

Consider this   

In the Ukraine the average monthly wage is about $350/month......   give it some thought.....

In South Africa it is about $550/month........... those kids are bustin' it for 9-10 months here for $3600-$4000 per month and buying homes and land back home,  supporting struggling families, seeing the Rockies and Grand Canyon and feeling lucky.

 

Our workers are going to compete with the rest of the world one way or the other.  This borrowed gravy train is gonna stop one way or the other.

We can't move our ag. factory out of the country any other way...... why is it good for Apple and not for us??

So what is wrong with it......??  Stop singing the old songs from the 60's and take a look around...  Even those packing plant jobs are good jobs to have.  This is not the 1900's when labor unions were desperately needed and we should stop singing those same old songs.

 

 

 

 

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Blacksandfarmer
Senior Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

sw363535, quit comparing third world sh$t holes to the U.S in regards to hours worked in a week. Between working a full-time job and farming, it is common for me to work 70+ hours a week in the spring and fall. I refuse to work those kind of hours for another farmer though. You must be a real sweetheart to work for. 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: How Should Agriculture Deal With Immigration?

government fights worker programs because unions like the teachers have too much influence..... yet we are bring in teachers under the H1B program to western kansas because some small towns are "undesirable" and the unions don't actually encourage anyone to work.

 

BA  we are working the H2A program country wide but it is was written for seasonal veggie & fruit crops.  The Large void of employees in agriculture has caused the labor dept. to allow it's use in midwestern grain and cattle operations...  ---- this is that void of labor that few on ag.com will admit and are quick to declare "caused by those "too big" producers.  It started with custom harvest crews in the 1960's and has grown to farmers and even coops tried to use the program whan they couldn't find employees.  Especially big problem on the high plains where the towns have no farm kids.  The smaller farmers in western wheat country are nearly gone.

 

This Generation         is gone....... we have liberalized them into public assistance and meth rehab.  The good ones were grabbed up by the tech world and every other corporation who knows the value of a rural childhood...   This generation is lost to agriculture....at least for us folks who are actually off the capachino grid.

 

Thanks friend you nailed it.... I repeat...  I been wanting to talk about this for years but we are a little crippled by retireeitus.  Technology and great farm equipment have extended farm life and that is part of what has chased our youth away.

 

"I will say that the foreign workers in agriculture are probably the cream of the crop.  The toilet scrubber/dope dealers are probably lower on the totem pole.  But yeah this country has a problem, truck driver jobs go unfilled because applicants can`t pass the urine test.  Well, it`s a vicious cycle, they have dope in their system and can`t get a job to get straightened out.  Then the social worker shows up with a list of government programs they`re legible for and no incentive to be anything other than Buttheads."

 

We need a system of deporting repeat drug offenders..... or at least a system that threatens citizenship for multiple felonies....

 

I'm unloaded, but remain willing to discuss those things of which I know...  Sorry to jump so hard............." Proudly Deplorable"  🙂

 

 

 

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