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Senior Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

Poor baby! How can you even tolerate such oppression?

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Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

  Nebrfarmer a similar story.   This month when my house renter paid his rent a week late as usual, he said he would be 2 weeks late with September rent as they are going to Disneyworld in Fla. those 2 weeks and won't have the rent money until he gets home.  2 years ago they lost their own home because he was laid off for 6 months from his factory job.  You can tell when payday is as some new gadget pops up.  Again mid to late 30s.

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Honored Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

It is difficult some days, isn't it?

Not at all what my Revolutionary ancestors had in mind when they helped forage the country out of a bunch of royal colonies, I am sure. None of us is nearly as " free" as we would like to think we are...

Then again, for all its faults, this is the one place on Earth where you can start with nothing and end up with something, if you are just willing enough to work hard enough. I think I will stay.
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Honored Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

Again, you display legendary levels of ignorance about the business relationship between us and our integrator. It is by its very definition NOT an employer/ employee connection...expressed terms in the contract, not a hint of confusion between us.

Yes, like most businesspersons, we did invest in our own real estate, facilities and infrastructure. Employees do not have that investment, but they don't get paid what we do, either.
I understand why people who risk everything every year to raise a crop or livestock on their own might be jealous of our guaranteed
minimum income agreements. Frankly, we would have to go,outnof our way to fail.

As for the repayment of a loan discussion, I NEVER said I would walk away from an obligation to repay someone what owe them; however, I would tell anyone who is insolvent to forget throwing good money after bad, and give the bank the property. If you do that after you have wasted your qualified retirement accounts, instead of before, you are just that much dumber.

The bank knows it has no recourse to attach those funds...they are not part of the mortgage deal. The mortgage is a contract, and as long as the bank gets paid, or gets its property back to sell again, it is made whole under the terms of it. Very few people,can get out from under a failing mortgage situation by raiding their retirement, and then paying the taxes and penalties for doing so.

It isn't "wrong" to shelter assets protected by law. It is " smart", " legal" and is the only way to avoid being even more dependent
upon succeeding generations in old age. Bigger crude..sorry of that confuses you, but your approach is just too simplistic.
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Honored Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

I' d say that ball depends on how long they can survive on nicotine and alcohol.

BTW, just curious...what kind of job lets you drink a couple of beers at lunchtime?
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Honored Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

Again, this is why my husband says of tenants: There is a reason why some people have to rent....
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Senior Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

Nothing is wrong with a balance budget but please cut the part of the budget that cauaed the debt. The government has been borrowing money from the SS trust fund and fica revenues for decades. Yet what is the first thing they want to cut? The soicial safety net that has been paying its own way and loaning money to pay for the irrespomnsible spendong of the rest of the government.

 

There has been class warfare but not in the way one normally would think. The tax code has been changed dramatically over the last three decades always favoring the more affluent or investors. And it is not just tax rates but a phenomenal number of tax incentives that draw untold amounts of revenue from the treasury. Billions and billions of taxes avoided because there are those that think that lower taxes are the recipe for budgetary nirvana in the US of A.

 

Your not saying how much income those poor young people drew in income to qualify for $125 K in federal income taxes. Their lowest rate starts off with the same rate as every on else and graduates higher as income rises. Do not forget that state and local taxes are deductable on the federal returns and most people get quite a few dollars income before they pay any tax. You get that generous deduction as well.

 

BTw don't assume that those pandering for higher taxes are poor folks that don't pay taxes. Many of them are middle class folks that are weary of paying taxes so that the rich folks can earning their capital gains at the 15% rate with no SS taxes. Evidently the investor class's earning ar more precious than the hard earned  dollars of the working stiff.

 

I don't just favor raising taxes on the rich but I favor returning to the tax rates of the Clinton era. Yep higher tax rates for everybody that pays taxes. Me included. What is the incentive to rein in spending? A balanced budget that everyone seems to want and debt reduction as well. But put the tax rates back to clinton era and work on spending cuts and tax reform. And that means cutting most of the tax incentives so that your neighbpor and mine cannot take fast depreciation on a $250k combine which will take at least 10 years before it is worthless. That is insane granting deductions before the depreciation occurs.

 

Toss aside the declaration of war agains seniors and the unfortunate. You have been borrowing seniors money for decades and now you want to punish them for loaning you the money. Talk about ungrateful. Yes increase fica taxes another half or one percent to bring revenues partially in line with what private insurers have been doing. Raising premiums exponentially year after year for decades. While medicare and medicaid taxes have renmained the same for almost as long.

 

If your oppressive taxes are a disincentive for you and your business then cut back if you must. They don't take it all and I'll be striving to earn the extra buck. I would rather have half a buck than no buck at all. Before we retire debt we have to have surpluses to repay debt with interest. You are not going to balance budgets or retire debt without increased revenues. It is simply mathematically impossible.

 

 We had a 3 decade experiment with cutting taxes and a promised economic nirvana. Robust business environment, job creations budgetary surplus and the tax cut policy has been sorely lacking. So it's time to try another tax. The tax cut policy did not deliver. Now with 14 trillion in debt its time to change directions. If you want to cut defense budgets and procurement by 50 % have a go at it but leave SS and medicare alone. Boost the tax rates and have a go at it but don't attack those that you have been borrowing from, seniors>

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Veteran Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

If the current problem has been caused by too low of a tax rate for the last 30 years, how about instead of punishing the young & hard working, by making them pay a way higher tax rate to average things out, how about a 'one time tax' on the rich, to reset us back to where we were.  What about a 'net worth tax'?  For everyone who's net worth grew more than $250,000 in the last 30 years, impose a one-time tax on that gain in net worth.  The rate would be yet to be determined, but it should be high enough to pay down the debt to the level it was 30 years ago.  That way, those who benefitted the most from those 'too low' tax rates would pay their fair share, and the Government could start anew on the right track.

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Highlighted
Contributor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

Let me guess...you are over 65, a small farmer, and a Democrat?  How close am I?

 

Everyone keeps going back to the past....well the past is the past and there is't much we can do about it can we?  It's convenient to look to the past and try to assess blame to justify a position.  We must deal with the reality of today.

 

Who caused this mess?  We did!  All of us!  We allowed Congress to spend like drunken sailors, ignoring financial reality.  Well, guess what, reality is here.

 

I had to laugh.  You question how much the young couple made?  What difference does that make?  You ignored my question.  HOW MUCH IS FAIR?????    The rough answer to your question is that with their state taxes they paid over 29% of their income in tax.  WHAT IS FAIR?   I already told you they had nothing when they had started, yet they spent a good portion of their life getting to today.  And you tell me this is not class warfare?  You do better than me, so you need to pay my share too!

 

The reality of the situation is that everyone is going to need to feel the pain.  I'm not yet on social security, and even though I paid in I'm sure my benefits will be cut because of my success.  So be it.  I'm taking responsibility for my future. 

 

You are right.  I'm not going to take additional risk and expand.  And I'm not alone.  Why do you think companies are holding all this cash?  They too are not willing to expand until we sort this whole mess out.  You go ahead...but you are merely spouting rhetoric....you will not be expanding your farm operation regardless....am I right?  And, maybe your tax preparer has some big secret, but I can't deduct my state income tax because I don't have a big house mortgage.  Did you get to deduct your state income tax last year???

 

Yea, go ahead and spout the rhetoric about balancing the budget on social security and Medicare.  Sounds familiar?  Well, we won't be able to pay social security and Medicare cried the President if you don't raise that debt ceiling.  Hogwash!!  The Federal Government would have gone on and functioned just like the State of Illinois.  They pay salaries, pensions, and the vendors wait to get paid. 

 

Well, I'm not sure I have a lot of sympathy.   Did you pay $ 1198 for your Medicare last year?  Well, I paid health insurance in the five figures...and the average health care premium for the farmers I see averages $ 12,000 per year until they reach 65.  Hmmm...who is paying the rest of the cost of Medicare?  I'm not so sure that the story of the poor elderly is not a myth.

 

What is your solution?  Do you believe the Federal Government is efficiently allocating it's revenue?  So what do you think will happen if we just raise taxes?  Will the government continue to pay the average of $ 3500 for each passenger out of the small airport in Harry Reid's district?  Will they send $ 1 Million to Peoria, Illinois so they can develop their warehouse district?  Will they continue to push funding for a rail line from Tampa to Orlando that the locals say is no benefit?  No, without the people forcing Congress to balance the budget, all this waste will continue......and I haven't even talked about all the dollars we spend trying to make the Pakistanis and Afghans to like us.  Yes, we can quit sending some of the dollars to the military complex.  We pay more tax and Congress spends more money.  The solution is to cut spending first, then let's talk about more taxes.  I'll be the first to advocate additional taxes...but only after we get control of spending and the tax increase goes to cut the debt (which helps because we would pay less interest).

 

Step up to the plate.  Comment on what is fair.  I'm afraid I put you in the class of the individual who wants change, but wants someone else to be responsible for the cost of that change.  Is it fair that 51% of the voters paid nothing towards the support of our country?  The tax code didn't create this mess....it was caused by uncontrolled spending...let's cure the problem!

 

 

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Honored Advisor

Re: I don't get that GDP/debt ratio.

That gain is already taxed, when an asset changes hands, as capital gains. Unless/until you sell something, its value is merely speculative, subject to the whims of the marketplace for it on any given day.

Ad valorem property taxes do this to a certain extent, via the process of assessment on a set schedule dictated in thestate law establishing taxation principles and practices. Here in our NC county, every six years the values of our properties are adjusted...in the VA county, it is every four. That takes into account the comparable sales of similar properties in the area in a given span of time prior to these general revaluations.

I do not know any fair way to set a value on everyone's worth, and then take part of that. Let's say it's ten percent...do you have to value everyone's house and their vehicles, plus bank accounts and investments, and then send them a bill for that?

Philosophically, I am opposed to further transfers of wealth from working people to people who do not work. One reason we are in the shape we are now is from funding so much of this foolishness.
If you want to see a rebellion, try tapping into bank accounts and sending tax bills to people like that boss, who would not forward a second day's lunch tab to the Skoal and suds guy. Try sending our friend a bill for the house he rents to the guy who's going to pay rent later than his usual late payment, so we can continue to afford deadbeats like a "tenant" I will be evicting in a few weeks.

I am not solely influenced by the Taxed Enough Already crowd, but they do make salient points about cutting wasteful spending. I keep hearing rumblings about Gov. Christie of NJ stating a GOP bid for the top job. I think he would at least get people interested in the election...would like to think people will have some choice other than just " not Obama".
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