Not exactly FARM business, but....

[Kay/NC]

...a friend posted a FB link a couple of days ago, which led to a short video promoting a longer one on youtube. The subject matter was the loss of individual rights, enabled by the Patriot Act...warrantless search and seizure, imprisonment without arrest or counsel, etc., the rationale for this being 9/11.

I know we talk about a lot of political topics, and how they relate to agriculture. I am not sure this one does, but the undermining of individual rights does besr upon our lives as citizens who think we are operating private businesses. This one is really bothering me today.

Several years ago, our now-deceased youngest child gavei me a video disk entitled " iZeitgeist", which revealed a lot of nagging doubts about the events of that day. It has bothered me since, but the author-producer was a sort of sketchy character, so I tried to tell myself " crackpot conspiracy theorist".

The video link I followed last night to youtube ( sorry I cannot get links copied right on iPad) led to an hour-long film called "9-11:Explosive Evidence..." It features numerous architects and engineers, all asking for a real and proper investigation of what happened that day.

I had been made aware that WTC7 also fell, even though not struck by a plane. They focus on that as a " smoking gun", proof in the video record of that collapse that all three towers came down as result of controlled demolition. I distinctly remember having that impression during the live coverage that day...that skyscrapers with steel skeletons just do not drop that straight and fast and leave that little wreckage.

I know that this isn't really farm business, but there is a wealth of experience on this board. I love this country, warts and all...but, this isn't some crackpot pointing to the flaw in the logic that has taken most of our most important rights away from all of us. I guess what I am asking for is your opinions.

This is thousands of well-credentialled professionals, saying that the crime scene was not properly investigated, that the investigation failed to even consider explosives implicated by the behavior of the structures as they fell, that the only reason no one one found evidence was because offically, no one looked.

This isn't a " what-if" wondering...it is a lot of professional people who design these types of structures for saying that we do not know the truth. I think I posted about Zeitgeist about five years ago. Sorry if this is thus redundant, but if you have an hour to blow on the new video, I would truly appreciate your honest impressions.

[r3020]

Would be willing to bet the majority of the people who made the 911 video support that same government running our healthcare.

[Kay/NC]

Honestly, my take on healthcare is this: A couple of software geeks built a website in a week or two, that did what the government healthcare site has been failing for two months to do. Why would this be such a failure, if it is so simple to do?

Individuals with substandard have now been told they can keep them long enough to get past the 2014 midterm elections. ( In NC, the insurance commissioner has just granted BCBS a 24% rate increase for them ,so they will still be crummy, just not cheap anymore.) The mandate for compliant policies for small businesses has just been rolled back for a year, too. Big ones has a bye in the process for a year to start with, right?

So, essentially no one has to comply?!?

Keep in mind, the Democrats wanted single payer national healthcare to start with....essentially Medicare for All, right? What better way to make the case for that, than to launch the private insurer exchanges, only to have things crash and burn, total uproar about premium increases, policy cancellations, etc.? People are starting to rumble about wanting the government to just pick up the ball and run with it.

I just cannot believe the ACA has started up this badly. If the right people had wanted it done right, it would have been perfect on October 1.

[hardnox604008]

Taking a break before putting an herb crusted leg of lamb on the grill. Should be interesting. Also probably more than a bit ironic to be delving into a very dark topic right now.

But anyway, I've gone entirely over to that dark side in concluding that the official conspiracy theory is thoroughly preposterous at every turn. I think that much is clear if you examine it. The impossible part is producing an alternative theory but I'll submit that is a trap you don't need to fall into.  Disproving the official explanation is sufficient.

The most intriguing thing about it all, to me, is observing the way people deal with it psychologically. There's an interesting series of essays beginning at ae911truth.org by a psychologist who explores some of that ( there is also a steady stream of experts writing in the main stream about what is psychologically unbalanced in with people who believe in conspiracy theories.)

A few years ago attended a presentation by Richard Gage, head of the above mentioned group of architects and engineers held at a UU church. More than anything I was just interested in observing the other kooks who would bother to attend. Near the end of his talk Mr. Gage became rather impassioned and said that "you need to tell your friends about this!"

There was a guy sitting by himself in the front who says, "yeah, but we don't have any."

That is surely a part of how mass hypnosis is reinforced. Nobody wants to be seen as a kook. And of course a vast amount of sunk cost now in terms of blood, treasure and our sense of who we are. Hard to go back.

[sw363535]

It is an interesting thought --------------------------- The obvious problem is that the public does not want it.  Neither Those who have good insurance and jobs that help with the cost, Nor those who have no jobs and receive good health care through public assistance, at basicly no cost.  Half of us don't want the government involved and the other half don't want to pay for anything.

A bad website is a good scapegoat for a program that nobody wants to participate in ------------ especially when many are granted exclusion from it.

We are rapidly reaching a place where the economy and the people say ------ "you keep borrowing and spending.  We are not going to worry about making a profit to help you pay for it" or "It's no skin off our nose we don't need to work hard enough to pay those taxes--we can survive at a low or no tax income level."   --------------- pretty much a down hill slide from there.

[Kay/NC]

I try to tell myself conspiracies are kooky, but then, when you look back at events of fifty years ago, and what we were being told v what was really happening....

My first impression, when the first tower started dropping on live TV, was that it was too neat, too complete. The website mentioned is the group responsible for the video ( not Zeitgeist, the newer one). It would not be something that engineers and architects would openly stir up lightly, do you think?

People in those fields cannot be seen as but so loony, or they lose their cachet. Engineers in particular seem to me to be slaves to logic, at least as they know it. I. Do not know many architects personally, so am not as sure of a personality type there.

This video ends with several psychological analyses, too. Zeitgeist had gone into the Pentagon and PA plane crashes, too. Not much better a logical conclusion of those, either...for one, not a really typical debris field in PA.

If not believing the final official report on 9/11 puts you on the Dark Side, at least we both have company...

.

[hardnox604008]

I'm not going into the back and forth ala' the websites where those things are discussed. It rapidly becomes futile, and there is no point anyway.

There is good reason to not go there.

If you do it can be twisted to fit into anyone's particular political worldview although it really trancends that to a spiritual recognition of existential evil.

Happy Thaknsgiving. Sorry, I'll be back next week.

[sw363535]

I'm with nox here ------------ Kook is a kook,  in this case kook with a title.

In this case credentials ----------- ok    Dr. Kook.  Like in europe where every third person is a doctor of something.

It is very hard not to become one of the sheep being sheered.

I saw an interview once that said it  wasn't right how the camera's were in position for the shots-- ------ my memory is not that bad yet.  But it is amazing how soon we forget details and time frames.

What is never amazing is how thoroughly people will work to use an event like this to "sell" a theory of political, religious, or criminal intent.

To twist history ------- to perpetuate the criminal as the victum, or the tragedy as demonic, or the victum as deserving. ---------- to ruin lives, distort truth  all to sell a book, a belief , or just gain a spotlight.  ---------------- or a you tube number.

[Kay/NC]

Funny how we interpret his remarks differently.... I read them to say the official theory is whack, but no one will ever know who is really culpable. I agree that credentials aren't everything, but it is hard to fake a career, even if your credentials in education and certification could be made up out of whole cloth.

To be clear, I do not sit and ruminate on this matter often. When I see something that points to something that confirms my initial suspicions, I guess it strikes a chord. This did it.

[BA Deere]

There are 2 kinds of conspiracy theorists regarding 9/11.  The first kind are rabid Democrats that are just out to destroy Bush #43 and decency http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0411/More_than_half_of_Democrats_believed_Bush_knew.html  

The other 9/11 conspiracy theorists are honest to goodness "Truthers" they see alot of things that don`t add up and have way more questions than answers, they just want the truth and I respect that.  If they are stiffled, we no longer have checks and balances. And "if everyone is thinking alike, somebody isn`t thinking".

Every time that Republicans and Democrats agree on a issue (NAFTA)  (war)  and whenever congresss "gets something done", the American people get screwed.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhKLSaSOzA  

I don`t know if there was a 9/11 conspiracy, but I will tell you this, Republicans and Democrats came to the same conclusion.   Israel was not some big winner in all this, Jewish people were NOT warned to "stay home" on September 11th 2001.  Bush and Cheney and the "oilmen" didn`t make out like bandits from 9/11. 

I`ll tell you who benefited from 9/11, the "industrial war complex" that Eisenhower warned us about, alot NSA TSA jobs patting down granny at the airport.  It`s obvious that the American people are the "losers" from 9/11.  People are more likely to be killed by a toddler than killed by a terrorist...google "things that are more dangerous than a terrorist" .  It certainly wasn`t worth spending $1 Trillion on a decade of wars and a $3 Trillion hit to our total economy...going to war over 20 highjackers mostly from Saudi Arabia (the one country we didn`t attack).  IMO, Bin Ladin shot his load on 9/11, if he had recruited more idiots, they wouldn`t attacked more on 9/11/01.