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Senior Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Hobby disagrees with me at times and i disagree with him but we can live with that We aren't disagreeable with each other because that isn't the objective.

 

Why do I defend the government? because I don't beleive there is government conspiracy to help big farmers to your detriment.  You can expand and grow and receive more subsidies exactly like the BTO. Take more risk and you can insure more risk. But you have to be a competitive player if you want to expand and grow. You cannot sit idle and complain because that will get you no where.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Holy Toledo, we have some agreement here...I just looked out the window to see if the sun really did come up in the east. I am agreeing with Hardnox, Don is agreeing with me, BA...maybe there is hope for the world yet.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Don, if you believe this truly, then you should also fully support a flat tax for the wealthy, and no progressive brackets. That would make the same sense.

 

and here for a moment, I thought you had come to some sense.

 

You do understand that no one is saying to do away with crop insurance for mega producers, right? just to eliminate the government ( this should mean taxpayer, but we know government just borrows the money) paid subsidy?  Maybe you don't get this. Something does not appear to be clicking for you.

 

Joe Farmer pays $50,000 in crop insurance...the government kicks in $20,000 to make the insurance affordable. Right or wrong, this is a lot of money. These are not exact numbers but lets say they are close for the sake of argument.

 

Jimmy Mega Farmer pays $500,000 in crop insurance, the government share becomes $200,000...a huge benefit. You are still wanting to argue that there should not be a limit on subsidies, or elimination alltogether? You favor this kind of assistance to an already large entity?

 

Just clarifying your thoughts. Maybe it doesn't click for you how large the numbers actually become. Or maybe you don't really favor getting a government in control of its spending and accountability.

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Senior Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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I favor cutting crop insurance subsidies for all farmers big and small. Why? Because many farmers argue that private enterprise does things so much more efficiently. I don't agree with that because  private insurance industry will not provide an affordable product. Same way with health insurance.

 

You are confused by my stance on the fairness of crop insurance subsidies. I maintain that the insurance subsidies is based on acres and bushels. If you have more of each, you need more insurance.

 

Try thinking of it as a car rebate on new cars. You buy one car and get a $3000 rebate. Yellow cab company buys a hundred cars and gets $300-K in rebates. Yellow cab is not getting special treatment as they are getting the exact same rate as you. If you want to buy more cars or more insurance you will get the rebate or subsidy.

 

That opinion has nothing to do with my wants at all. It is merely addressing the fairness issue. It doesn't bother me if some one gets a much higher insurance subsidy because I have to buy less insurance and I never collect on a claim anyway.. Not in 40 years of farming.

 

If you wish to campaign on changing crop insurance, have at it. I would prefer no insurance subsidy because i have the philosophy that we can't afford subsidized health insurance for people, we shouldn't be insuring millionaires crops like yours and mine.

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Contributor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Capitalism of course is the engine of our economy.  It creates wealth, but also wretched excess.  Successful models like milking unrestricted subsidized crop insurance will be carried forward by them riding the wave until they crest with monopoly which is not good.  A fellow with whom I went to high school, is reputed to own 31,000 acres in Minnesota and surrounding states.  He's a second generation land speculator, and has never farmed.  It's insane to give him access to any sort of subsidy,except conservation incentives....Still, subsidized crop insurance is the best vehicle to stabilize risk for ordinary farmers.  Put it back under the FSA where everyone can see what is being spent, and who benefits, with a reasonable upper limit cutoff.  I think we have more non-government employees involved with banks and insurance companies making a living from crop insurance than we have FSA employee in our county..  Without the private sector interest, the fluff will soon be squeezed out of the program. Indemnities after a crop failure, might cover inputs but not a profit, just like program used to be.  Price used to calculate benefits should be comparable to the old target price adjusted for inflation.  Perhaps $4.50 for corn?

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Senior Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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You will fare much better if you read and comprehend what we are actually saying instead of what you think we are saying. You need to stop taking a different view point as an attack on your intelligence. If nothing else you will see a different perspective and you might accidently learn from it.

 

You are not injured by someone getting more subsidized insurance. You are not injured by some getting a larger direct payment. You are not injured by someone getting a debt write down that you didn't get.

 

You spend way to much time fretting over such things. But then that is just another opinion which you can accept or reject.

Veteran Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Good points, and good post.

 

I have heard of employees that left banks and other lenders, just to cherry pick the largest farmers for crop insurance, and the huge agency premiums associated with these accounts, and doubled or tripled their net incomes. Good work if you can get it, but hard to argue that Joe Sixpack should pick up the tab.

 

 

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Advisor

Re: Crop insurance and mega farms

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Crop insurance is a program legislated by congress, by a vote of the people's representatives and sanctioned by all major commodity groups.  If you say I'm defending the government programs, then yes, I am. "We the people" voted this program in as it is.  Nothing wrong with that.  I don't defend anything beyond what is defensible and legal. 

 

The government is not picking winners and losers.  If you disagree with the policy of crop insurance, it's your right to not participate and self insure.  Go ahead, take on the risk.  Don't come to this ag site and complain if you see others benefiting from a program that you don't want to be a part of. 

 

If you have an opinion, I respect it and it's your right to express it.  Give that same respect to others who disagree with you, no matter how disagreeable you might think he/she is.  

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Advisor

Hey, great.  By the way, the Chisolm trail crosses one of my farms on the corner, and about a mile and half away, the Santa Fe trail crosses another piece that I farm.  A lot of history surrounds us.  Just looking at the terrain, I can't help but think how difficult it actually was for the drovers and settlers to traverse the land, crossing creeks and rivers every few miles.  I remember some stories about how they had to wait out the rivers that were over their banks with flood waters or had to find better places to cross.  A tough life.

 

So, you are living in Bixby, Ok.  If you ever come up the Chisolm trail way, send me an email and I'll give you the nickel tour of our area.

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Advisor

Re: Simplify the issue

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Very good point. Jr.  Consumers are the real beneficiaries as you said.

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