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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

Hours are not limited and most choose to work about 60-65 per week.  But not all. A couple with greater responsibilities at home average 45-8 hrs per week.  yet they can schedule around family events.

Health insurance is fully paid by employer.

Housing allowance is reimbursed or rent is paid by employer and deductable to the employer if they are living in a remote area required for the job.  Including utilities and communication connectivity(cell & Wifi service)

2 weeks vacation paid even if not used.

To and from work transportation provided.

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Or $20 per hour with no benefit package -------- 

 

  figure the tax difference for the employer and the employee .....

 

I don't make the decisions I just give the advice,,,,    but ,     ya see everything....

 

Several years ago the same employer started his health insurance group for owners and employees and decided to pay it all and make it a benefit to include family coverage.  One of the 3 employees got upset..... he wanted to opt out, have the cash equal to the premium added to his paycheck.  (Wife pregnant and three small children--- all elegible on the new group w BCBS.)

The answer was "it is a paid benefit, you can take it or not take it)  He quit the job he was comfortable with the week before.

true story   Owner thought he was doing something good.......    Ya never know.

 

In this area we have been used to competing with gas and oil for labor ...... which means benefits.... 

.

 

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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

SW, US wages are too cheap, you can look it up when real wages have been stagnant for decades in real dollars, while inflation claimed to be low, it hasn`t been the case as we all know.  If the US worker is in direct competition with the Chinese or Mexican worker, then yes, "US wages are too high" question is: do we want our country to have their standard of living?   It`s a slippery slope like Democrats taking guns, eventually the Mexican and Chinese workers we have to compete with are losing to India and other countries willing to raise the bar higher still.  In the end we`ll all be getting our drinking water from the Damodar River.  

 

Here`s the problem with a free country as the US creating a under class as we`ve done, it gives rise to Bernie Sanders and socialism.  Communism and socialism are rapidly losing it`s negative stigma in US politics...read the forum page, for an illustration.

 

I don`t blame employers for low wages, it`s the environment that they operate in is their problem.  Let me make this analogy : Let`s say there`s some truck driving companies and they all drive the speed limit of 55 and all do alright.  Then one of the companies discover they can drive 60 and the cops leave them alone, they deliver freight faster and get more business, pretty soon all truckers must drive 5mph over the speed limit or they are uncompetitive.  Then one company gets a radar detector and discovers they can average 70mph delivering freight, to be competitive all truckers get radar detectors and drive 70.  Then one day a trucking company realizes they can drive faster than 70, if they go 90 they can amortize the fines into their costs and be still more competive.   That was only an illustration using trucking and driving speeds, I don`t mean to or want to go in a tangent of discussing truckdriver speeding.   But it is similar to pitting the US worker against the world in wages.   Back to the speeding example, what trucking company is to blame? They all in the example are driving 90 and have been doing so for 30 years, a new company will have to drive 90, a trucker driving the posted 55 won`t get freight. 

 

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k-289
Esteemed Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

OR  ''''' $20   with  no  benefit '''''   would  equal  '''''' 62.5  hours ''''''  per  week  =   $65,000. oo   X   .75  =   $48,500. oo  take  home 

 

       

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k-289
Esteemed Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

This   slow -grind  downward  race  to  the  bottom  on  the  proud  fallacy  of   '' cheapest ''  produced  commodity - sure  has  numerous  coat tails - - -

 

       

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

Come on BA  that is the left's kool aide..... 

 

Do we compete in world trade or not..... Or do we eliminate labor as a part of the income statement.  

Is more money at lesser value always going to be the answer...  Frankly I don't want more income.... I want a lower cost of living.

 

 

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Fine with me take the 48 take home and pay your own medical insurance, housing and utilities.  And pay the income tax on those expenses.

 

You are showing what is wrong with labor.......... it thinks only for itself.   Sometimes more is less.

 

 

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Do we want to farm $500 per acre ground that will feed a family on 320 acres or do we want $2500 per acre ground that needs 1500 acres to feed a family.  Which are we striving for?

We can't keep depending on inflation to bail us out while it devalues our dollars.... that is not surviving...  and begs me to ask..... Why do you want more dollars?

 

And now that most of the manufacturing is somewhere else in the world....  How can you believe that our workforce is cheap..... it is not ,,, it is the other perspective..... our cost of living is too expensive  ..........  and we have far more control over that than we want to admit.

 

Sooner or later every worker has to ask........ Is my work generating enough goods and services to pay for its cost.    and every worker has to ask is it my employers fault ......

I can't believe how ignorantly we ignore business failures as employees and how we buy into the idea that we can all be shareholders without employees.  The biggest thing we buy into is "it is always managements fault when they fail.  Farmers do the same thing.... blame the price of grain for increasing their cost of production 50%.......when in fact they do have much of the control over their costs per bushel.

 

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Yesterday Amazon stock is up on news of its plans to be able to deliver to point ..... like the trunk of your car.   Stock was going up......

In my mind that is a sell signal....  convenience without value..... at a cost far greater than the value of the service.   Or does it mean its customers will soon be living out of their cars?

And should I buy from a company that I can never hope to work for..... or even make a friend at.

California is bankrupt and yet has many of the richest companies in the world working from there.  People continue to move out in huge numbers,,,,,, agriculture continues to leave California,,,, feeding the new Dairy SW....  We continue to pour money into tech companies that do not use american labor and cheer for every new inovation that makes a farm more productive with less people.

 

These are not signs that US labor is underpaid.

 

Labor is more expensive and less productive than it has ever been in the US. ---- And far less qualified especially in Agriculture.

 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

What gives rise to bernie and socialism is when we are no longer willing to work and live the lifestyle we can afford...

 

We have grown up, some of us, in one of the richest and most rewarding times in US history.... the post ww2 era of 60's and 70's.....

 

And nearly every child raised in that time knew what it meant to put something back on the shelf because you couldn't afford it.

You either got told that or heard someone else told that in the store or you had a small amount of money to spend.... No credit cards....

 

Today we have kids and grandkids living in poverty with a high standard of living and a higher education..... yet have no clue how bad off they are financially because they can charge everything into the future...... even their telephone gets paid on time.

 

Unending credit makes people real stupid........ so bernie and somebody else bailing me out is all they got left  outside of drugs and suicide...

 

It is the legacy of the baby boomers....... Taking the richest country in the world and bankrupting it financially and educationally.

 

just my opinion on an otherwise nice day   yet cold.

 

 

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k-289
Esteemed Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

Dairy  being  an  uphill  grind  to  stay  afloat ,  bloated  with  expensive  might  turn  it  around  attitudes ,  along  with  production  capacity  tethered  to  tax  increment  gimmes  to  keep  the  processors  in  place,  by  just  reading  the  business  headlines ---

 

Having  a  consumption down hill slide,  far  from  encouragement,  unfortunately - - -

 

Far  less  qualified  &  expensive &  less productive -  something  doesn't  quite  add  up  here  -  8  axle  livestock  pots &  ddg  outfits  ?  ?

 

Experiencing  from  a  hired  hand  side  of  the  fence  might  give  one  another  perspective  ?  ?       

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BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

SW, the US worker is the most productive on the planet.  The trouble is pitting them against people around the world that work for a few bucks a day in a factory that creates smoggy air, dumps industrial waste in the river and doesn`t care if you cut your hand off...there`s 500 more happy to take your place.  

 

Just my anecdotal observations, those working in a US factory are hardworkers, but many times you go up to the offices and the salaried employees are watching boxing matches on You Tube on their laptop (true story) and then they leave at 3 "gotta pick up my kid" never to be seen the rest of the day.   A salaried worker should put in 70hrs/week but I doubt many do after they get comfortable in their rut.  

 

Look at CEO compensation in 1965 the average CEO made 20 times more than the average worker, today the Ceo makes over 300 times of the average worker.   

 

I`ll tell ya one thing about the days when the average family farm was 320 acres, you never heard of "school shootings".   If there was a time machine to go back to 1965, I`d jump right in it, that was America`s best times.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-workers-worlds-most-productive/  

 

American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Each U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, ahead of Luxembourg, $55,641; Belgium, $55,235; and France, $54,609.

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker, and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies - South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand - surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

 

 

*Had to laugh, US workers are second to Norway in wealth generation per hour, us Norwegians been getting a bum rap for being "lazy"  🙂    But when most of your workers are pumping oil black gold and selling Sardines those are high dollar items.

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k-289
Esteemed Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

B A  -   C E O   $$$$   compensation  -  most  interesting, glaring,  comparison  -  I  won't  elaborate - - -   

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: SNAP is Hard

BA   I am not going into all the misleading comments made or the repeating of wives tales..... 

 

But credibility will not go up when you compare a company CEO with the same companies production workers and think that one deserves to be compared to the other.  It is like saying my grandson in little league deserves a better contract cause that guy on tv is getting 3 million a year to play the same position.  That is a better example because my grandson can play the position.  Can a dock worker actually be a CEO???

 

Most of the pro labor studies and comparisons are generated in similar ways...... distorted at best.... like the claim that there is full employment by ............. whomever....      Yet we have 40-100 million on food stamps.... and untold millions of unemployed doing something else or been that way too long to count.   It eats up a lot of time trying to assess the validity of "studies".

 

I am old enough to remember smokestacks that actually polluted dark smoke into the air and left ash on cars.  I haven't seen one in nearly 30 years.  I see white steam from heat...... but we did a great job of cleaning that stuff up in the 70's and we will never get credit as long as the marksest baby boomers can control with misinformation.

 

Some common knowledge is not true. or is at least not true today.

 

I am not against workers ....... I am just saying we have been inflating the worker value bubble so long that we have lost the ability to recognize value or a good job.  I remember auto workers many years ago making 35-40 per hour and getting reduced hours per year.  They didn't ask for work those 3 months laid off.  They just negotiated for more $ per hour.  That was a long time ago, I could hire a lawyer for $50/hr at the time.

 

My grandson wants to play in a pro-am golf tournament...... I was thinking ice cream.   He will be lucky to get ice cream.  And he won't be happy.     BA...... that is his problem.  I am going to enjoy the ice cream.

 

We been trained to never be happy

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