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k-289
Senior Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??

Interesting thing now  B A is around these parts we killed the union jobs at the packing house although the county attorney has to hire extra staff plus an interpreter for the increased case loads - and look how much you are saving at the meat counter --- 

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Kay/NC
Honored Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society

The demise of the middle class is of great concern, if you want an economy with any resiliency at all. That is what is lacking this go- around of so- called recovery. There are so few people with creditworthiness left to milk, to stimulate new consumption.

I was struck nearly dumb, when on the heels of 9-11-01, our President's advice was to basically " go out and shop". Somehow, not what I think our leaders asked us to do after Pearl Harbor, for example...if so, it was not in my history book!

The first thing I was told about the county we moved to in NC 1994, was how poor it was. It was on everyone's lips. Yet, when I compared the economics on some data discs that came with my new office computer, the county clearly had greater manufacturing, natural resources and ag sectors than our largely middle class county in Virginia.

It took me a while to figure out that the much greater wealth was concentrated in the hands of a precious few. It was a distribution problem, pure and simple.

In the ensuing 19 years, I have watched the national economy follow much the same course. This does, in my mind, threaten the self- concept of Americans, and the perception of our nation as a first rate world power.

We won't be buying much of anything at Walmart, or anywhere else, if this trend continues. The Chinese economy is even falling pretty short of its set goals for GNP right now.

That is WITH its built but not sold set of new cities...they count real estate that is constructed, not sold. If you adjust for that false growth, I wonder if they are much better off than we are, and we are the main customer base for their manufacturing sector.

It is all grinding into greater gridlock now, except for Wall Street, which is having a high old time again, thanks to the Fed throwing money we don't have at a problem we have done not much of substance to solve. Not very encouraging....
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Kay/NC
Honored Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??

Funny, but for a capitalist society, we aren't all that fond of electing businessmen to the Presidency. Those we have had had Big Oil connections, and we all know how that's playing out.

We had to know a community organizer was going to have a socialist- activist leaning. We in Virginia are dealing with a Clinton crony running for governor. It's a very tight-knit club. What decent person woild,run, though?
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wt51015
Senior Contributor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society

As you were going through your history books, did you peer what was going on in the mid to late 1920s and then into the early 1930s? Could be a deja vu moment in time to what our future holds, even with all of our entitlements and programs.

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??

As I have maintained too many times, whatever criticisms of government benefits- UE ins, SNAP, AFDC, are valid, the people in our society who ought  to keep their mouths shut are grain farmers and land owners.

 

The anecdotal case against those programs is the mainstay of the Ag Forum page, btw. 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society

Well world wide the hunger issue was big.  Eastern europe was starving a high % of its population while dumping it's stolen food supply on the world market for weapons to kill more.  Which pushed our stock market issues into a full depression.

 

 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society

"keep your mouths shut"  became the theme for eastern europe for the next 50 years after the socialists took full control of everything.

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society

The rest of society has been generous to croppers and landowners to an extraordinary and irrational degree- primarily owing to the historical momentum of progressive farm programs that, once enacted, won't go away.

 

The ethanol laws were in my view also excessively generous as they were enacted. We could have done 9-10 b/g/y as a base with some mechanism for elasticity beyond that. The timetable and ultimate goal was too much. Not to mention the abject failure of the cellulosic component.

 

Since this thread has headed here I'll go with it- I don't have the background to do the analysis but I'd submit that for whatever benefit Americans got from ethanol via gasloine prices, they probably lost as much from food prices and that actually bites a bit harder on the lower end of the income scale.

 

It is sort of like GMOs- the EU doesn't allow them but their corn yields are going up faster than the US'. There are some complicating factors in that but also stands as an example of enacting complex policies and/or adopting  technologies that shift money around but accomplish little on a net basis.

 

Reminds me of Joseph Tainter's "Collapse of Complex Civilizations"- they failed because of increasing investment in complexity with little marginal benefit.

 

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Packard27
Senior Contributor

Re: The facts on hunger??

Hardnox,

 

You are quite mistaken. Some of us in this blog are enthusiastic supporters of the federal food stamp program and the inextricably intetertwined connection it has with the farm bill. What is not to love? 80% of the farm bill funds are going to millions while the remaining 20% are being divided up to thousands. Please do not take this personally, but a person would have to possess the mathmatical competency of an average 4th grader to not understand who benefits the most here.

 

Here are my three cheers for far more robust federal food stamp and SNAP programs. Heck, let's double or even triple the amounts the government is planning to spend next year. Let's also just agree that we are...wait for it...yes, in need of the increased funding because we only "care about the children."

 

So let the good times roll and try to remember Hardnox, "we are all patriots here."

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rswfarms
Senior Contributor

Re: The facts on hunger??/ 2 Income Class Society/ $400,000 houses

I live in a nice area of the Twin Cities and the average house sells for around $400,000. $400,000 may seem like alot of money for a house, but basically it is just an average house with only 4,000.finished square feet, 4 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms.This is what most middle-class people in the Twin Cities buy for there families. Houses just cost alot more money in the big cities compared to say rural Iowa.But I have a friend that sells houses and he said that these houses are sitting on the market for as long as a year now because there are just not enough people that can afford a $400,000 house than there was 15 years ago.I contribute this to the disappearing middle-class in the Twin Cities. It is really becoming to be obvious that we are moving to a just a 2 class income level society, the rich and the poor. I believe in just another 20 years this could cause some problems for our country. Afterall, our country needs a very strong middle-class to be able to function well. no middle-class and our country will suffer because of this disappearing middle-class

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