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Veteran Advisor

my stomach turns over

everytime someone, like yourself, promotes more American bombing and airstrikes.

 

If someday we are run over as a nation by the rest of the world, it will because of attitudes like that.

 

We cannot get out country in the control of isolationists like the Pauls, soon enough. I would really like to die thinking my descendents will know a few generations of peace and prosperity.

 

American bombs are what has got us to the edge of the cliff.

 

Go to church and pray for some guidance in the way your mind works.

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Advisor

Re: War call?

  Libyan oil is better quality then from the Saudis.  It is mostly sent to Europe for distilling into diesel fuel.  I dunno if we should go in.  The gummint has more info on it then we do.  I do think we should get the heck out of Afghanistan.  That's a no-win deal there.  Russia was there in the 80's and it broke them without winning a thing.  It cost them so much it lead to their downfall and the end of the Berlin wall.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: my stomach turns over

Red if you think Im pro war you couldn't be any more wrong. I have personally seen what war can do. Right now certain people in congress and in the senate are pushing airstrikes while others are not. If the guys pushing for US involvement get there way airstrikes would be the only option I could possibly support. Personally I think we ought to just let these guys handle things on there own but Uncle Sam knows they have oil and innocent people are being killed, and that changes things. After the holocaust during WW2 the US has more or less tried to stop that from happening again. Before you go off on a rant please don't refer to me as just "someone like yourself". I was one of those young boys clearing caves in Afghanistan years ago and that made me for the MOST part anti-war.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: my stomach turns over

sorry I snapped at you. I appreciate your service.

 

The ones I get really upset at are the "chicken hawks", the wimps that have never been in the fight that think it is all so easy.

 

George Will, the political "pundit" comes to mind...he has never seen a war he doesn't like, but could not personally punch his way out of a wet paper sack and doesn't have sons that will ever be in harms way.

 

What is your opinion on our involvement in Afghanistan? are we accomplishing anything of value there by all the blood and treasure we have spent there?

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Advisor

Re: my stomach turns over

I'll take a stab at this issue for better or worse. There's only one reason we're seriously considering moving carrier battle groups into the Meditteranean. It's about the damage the Libyan situation is doing to "our" economy. The stock market has been crazy..the oil market is drilling us...and if the situation doesn't get settled soon, we stand a chance of backsliding to the economic mess we were in 3 years ago. On the good side of this...is we don't have to make air strikes. All we have to do is keep the Libyan air force on the ground. This is not a problem. I'm reminded of the transmission heard by everyone in the Middle East...when the Iranians came up on the "guard" channel and challenged an American fighter telling him he was in Iranian airspace..and that they would send interceptors up after him. Everyone in the Middle East heard his reply..and it has to be a classic of American quotes from servicemen...proud of their ability to take on all comers....He said..."This is an American Marine Corps FA-18...and I am in Iraqi airspace. Go ahead and send up your interceptors.....I'll wait."

We are so far ahead of most other countries in air to air combat...radar tracking and missle targeting...that our fighters probably don't even have to clear the Libyan coast..to keep the Libyan air force...from bombing the opposition who are marching on Tripoli.

I hate the idea that we're once again putting men in harms way...but the world has come to expect us to be the "cops". Maybe someday we can pass off the obligation...until then, I believe we're stuck with it.

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Senior Contributor

Re: War call?


@k-289 wrote:

Canuck---maybe you have heard some comments up your way as to why they don't refine the tar sands up your way or at least in North Dakota instead of sending it to the BIG hats in Texas--one thing the politicians are forgetting is the availability  info we are using right here !


To be honest I have not heard anything about refining any more oil here.

It could be because we are already pumping so much greenhouse gas into the atmosphere just 'mining' the oil out of the ground that we will never reach the goals to reduce that we have committed too.

I have heard comments that we should not 'mine' more oil than we need just to reduce greenhouse gas.

The oil sands are not an easy way to extract oil. A lot of polution is created right on the ground besides what goes into the air.

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Highlighted
Senior Contributor

Re: War call?


@nwobcw wrote:

  Libyan oil is better quality then from the Saudis.  It is mostly sent to Europe for distilling into diesel fuel.  I dunno if we should go in.  The gummint has more info on it then we do.  I do think we should get the heck out of Afghanistan.  That's a no-win deal there.  Russia was there in the 80's and it broke them without winning a thing.  It cost them so much it lead to their downfall and the end of the Berlin wall.


I have been on record for some time that 'we' (Canada got sucked into that one too) should never have gone there.

Problem now is 'we' have disturbed the social order, such as it was, that it is hard to just cut and run and leave them in an even worse mess.

History goes back even further than the Russians.

Britain did not win that area over either, a long time ago.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: my stomach turns over

Red I would like to think there is something worth fighting for in Afghanistan but Im not really sure there is. We did not start the war in Afghanistan, the terrorist did. We have a very good military and the terrorist have found that out first hand. We can kill as many Taliban as we want but we can't kill a mentality. As long as these terrorist groups believe we are an Israel supporting, Christian nation, we are ALL infidels. Dying to the enemy over there is a sense of pride for those people. We can't get the job done right until we can go into Pakistan and kill Bin Laden. On the Libyan side of things I believe our air power is unmatched by any in the world and could knock that dictator out of power within hours. If you asked me whether or not Libyan freedom is worth any US pilots life I would say no. On the other hand if the French had said the same about their troops back in our own revolution we may not have earned our own independence.

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Senior Contributor

Re: my stomach turns over, so does mine.

Pupdaddy; read your post and tell me you did not really mean what you said.

"but the world has come to expect us to be the "cops"."

I do not think that is true.

'You' may have assumed 'you' are the worlds cops but I think if you asked around the world not many would agree with you.

I fully expect the UN would be chosen by many, indeed most, of the rest of the world.

All this talk of bombing and 'policing' Libya really looks rather like the town bully rather than policing.

If it was policing then why are so many other worse situations ignored.

What is being done to 'police' the Congo or Ivory Coast? and lots more areas around the world?

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Senior Contributor

Re: my stomach turns over


@Blacksandfarmer wrote:

Red I would like to think there is something worth fighting for in Afghanistan but Im not really sure there is. We did not start the war in Afghanistan, the terrorist did. We have a very good military and the terrorist have found that out first hand. We can kill as many Taliban as we want but we can't kill a mentality. As long as these terrorist groups believe we are an Israel supporting, Christian nation, we are ALL infidels. Dying to the enemy over there is a sense of pride for those people. We can't get the job done right until we can go into Pakistan and kill Bin Laden. On the Libyan side of things I believe our air power is unmatched by any in the world and could knock that dictator out of power within hours. If you asked me whether or not Libyan freedom is worth any US pilots life I would say no. On the other hand if the French had said the same about their troops back in our own revolution we may not have earned our own independence.


Blacksand I have to object to your opinion that Afghanistan started the war.

I do not think there is any evidence to back that up.

Do not forget that most of those terrorists that were involved in the attacks used to excuse the Afghanistan war were Saudi Arabians.

There was no legitimate reason to start that war and it was not Afghanistan that started it.

 

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