West fertilizer explosion

[hardnox]

Not sure where this belongs.

http://www.syracuse.com/us-news/index.ssf/2016/05/arson_in_texas_fertilizer_plant_explosion_that_kil...

Ruled arson, unsolved as of now.

Having personal experience with these materials and some HAZMAT training, I never could believe that the initial explanation about anhydrous ammonia was correct. I think they moved away from that theory pretty early on.

It takes a better chemist than me to speak to this definitively but I'm of the opinion that ammoium nitrate is fairly inert without an oxydizing agent like diesel fuel. And I'm told that it requires pretty thorough mixing and proportioning.

If that's the case it would require a heckuva rube goldberg series to produce that big of a blast.

[hardnox]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927336

Here's the MSDS on AN, doesn't answer the question entirely but sort of suggests that I might be correct.

Correction the AN is the oxydizer, not the other binary component.

I've told the story before but many years ago I went by the coop to get some kerosene for some hog fountain lamps. One of the guys led me into a bunker where the tank was sitting in an open bin next to a bin full of AN. When you walked in the floor would crackle when you stepped on some stray crumbs of AN that had some kerosene dripped on them. the guy says, no big deal, it takes a lot to blow up.

[sw363535]

Who and why have been the questions from the start imo

[hardnox]

What I was angling on was the speculation that it seems more than just a simple commercial or criminal arson.

If AN was prone to explosion merely from fire I don't think we'd even be using it any more- I'm not aware of any big advantage over urea, which seems to make up almost all the dry N market here these days.  And I'm pretty sure that HAZMAT training for rural firefighters would note the risk.

I may be misinformed, so, more than anything, was open to anyone telling me I'm wrong.

As I said, could be a strange rube goldberg series of events- that's sometimes the nature of disasters. But you probably start out looking at more likely scenarios.

[hardnox]

As I corrected, in an exposive reaction the AN is the oxydizer, the other component the fuel.

That can be various things- fuel oil- or as in Tannerite, aluminum powder. Other compounds too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite

You may have seen the recent youtube of the guy who blew his leg off playing Rambo on his riding lawn mower with tannerite and his AR.

But in either of those combinations it requires pretty thorough mixing to get a big explosion- not likely that just incidental contact goes off big.

BTW, I can't think of a good reason why that stuff (tannerite) should be legal.

[hardnox]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Many historical cases of AN explosions. All seem to have further aggravating circumstances than just a pile and a fire.

A couple in there that might be Darwin Award candidates- like using expolsives to dislodge a clumped up load.

End of discussion unless anybody has something to add. Haven't proved anything but surely haven't disproved the idea that it is curious.

[Kay/NC]

A neighbor of ours in VA was the county EMS director. He once told me, "If ____________(local fertilizer and chemical dealer) catches on fire, take your family and run!" We were a couple of air miles away, at best. You would think that might be far enough, but his emphatic insistence on this was enough to convince me that it was not....

[gurly3801539]

Our local coop uses explosives to loosen caked fertilizer bins.  But they get a company that specializes in that and knows what they are doing.  I don't know what they used for an explosive.