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Kay/NC
Honored Advisor

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

Just because you do something unusual doesn't mean that your problems are due to that nature of the business. I created a one- of- a-kind exception to the most cumbersome permit structure. In our industry, and no one could figure out a legally legitimate way to refuse it, no matter how much they wanted to.... They couldn't have been nicer, and I couldn't have been more grateful, althogh would have taken legal steps to push the point if necessary.

It. Isn't always what you do that gets you noticed...it is the way you do it. The first, best way is to try NOT to antagonize the agencies you deal with, either by words or attitude. I have a sense that you alienate the people you have to deal with, and they make it interesting for you in return.

You can draw more flies with sugar than with s#%t, you know....

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belarus
Senior Contributor

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

I have a feeling there are lots of people that want to do the on farm processing thing but can't.  I have a muslim inspector in my pig slaughter plant.  You can call it what you like.  I call it having the potiential for an inspector to appear unbiased which is against their policy.  If you think its right you would be the first one.  You can even call it me antagonizing them.  They aren't set up for little plants and we are getting closer to being big every day.

Now, back to human sludge.  Personally, I'd choose to not have it on my ground or those producing my food but that is just me.  And its not from the human waste standpoint as much as the stuff that people and industry are dumping down the drains.

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stevehink
Contributor

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

Kay, you must have your head in the sand to think because there are rules that everything is being done properly. I do thank you you though for your time, but all the research you've done doesn't trump reality. As an example, manure tanks were put in with grant moneys so that farmers would put the manure on the ground at the right time. In my area, many farmers apply the manure on frozen ground, only to have it washed away by melting snow or un-seasonal rains. There are no conseqeunces for these actions and I know farmers had to have manure plans to qualify for the pits.

I also know there is so much sludge to get rid of that the goverment can't or won't make sure everything gets done properly, including extracting metals and other dangerous chemicals from sludge. There are over 300 million people and the bottom line is the sludge has to get spread.

 

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Kay/NC
Honored Advisor

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

I tried to give you the broad strokes on biosolids utilization, especially from a legal standpoint. You can de,and that setbacks be observed from your own lines, wells, home, etc., but that is about it. You can complain about runoff...and I would, if if occurs.

No, rules aren't always followed...I spent two two years of my life documenting rules violations by one of the world's largest companies in the mining industry, The truth is, the only way you can work with this regulatory system - or any system, for that matter - is to learn the rules better than others, and hold people's feet to the fire. It is hard work, can be expensive (especially if you need legal counsel), and may or may not turn out the way you'd like. I am batting 1000 in my situation, but I can't point to another landowner who has come even close to breaking even in this situation.

I directed you to do more research because that is the only way to answer the questions you were asking. Glad you took the time to
do as I suggested. The main message you needed to hear was what is and isn't significant in dealing with your concerns.

How the guy's crops look and what he earns are not. how close to your property and it's significant features the sludge is applied are. What the weather is like is important, and you already know. Whether or not it is supposed to be knifed in within a given
interval, how often application may be made, etc.,

The reason sludge is so intertwined with ag is that this symbiotic relationship allows the farmer to avoid costs, and the company doing the application to pocket fees for disposal without having the nutrient uptake expenses of planting, harvesting, etc. It is HUGE business near populous areas, and given its constitutional protections, is very hard to prevent on land, unless you own it.
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batesdan
Friend

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

 I inject about 3 million gallons of septic every year.  I would love to get biosolids  from a plant  I could go on bought half the rate as septic and if handled correctly a more uniform product.  I would say on a average year my septic applied land has at the min. 30% more yield.  with little to no commercial fertilizer.  IF the city properly does everything it is analyzed for heavy metals and such . I do believe this does happen .  And depending where you live etc. What your levels are .  There is one area that I have a  pumper that hauled to me  has to have a new analysis done on each load that I require not the gov because in the certain area there is natural mercury and high arsenic  ...

   I have several septic pumpers that haul to me . I then try to screen mix store then inject the septic. To get a nice uniform product. Of coarse to do all this I have to charge a fee to the pumpers. I have had several pumpers that have gone out of business. Mainly because there are other haulers who do not have to pay to get rid of the septic  and are not legally getting rid of there septic.  The Montana state Deg is a joke . They pretty much do not care . They even try to tell me that taking a harrow and dragging it over septic that is spread out on top of the ground by a septic truck is a great way of incorporating it.  Give me a brake...  I am at there point where I am tired that most of my haulers either can't pay me  or are behind  .  The only reason I haven't pulled the plug on them yet is at atleast they are trying there hardest to do there pumping legally.  However if something doesn't change soon  I will pull the plug  unless I can find a good lawyer that will take on the deg  make them pay for the damages that I have inquired  and make sure that everyone is on a even playing field..

 

    Also one great thing about class b solids also you have virtually all garbage out of it.    In septic  there is a tone of garbage  sometime in 50,000 gallons there will only be 5 gallons worth of garbage . Sometimes there is 35 gallons of garbage  in 2,000 gallons.  Anyone that think it is fine to just dump one load at a time on a field  which is fine by the EPA and deg is a joke . Some loads are hotter than hell and some are 99.5 inert. That is why I always try to mix at least 30,000 gallons before I go and inject .  For the farmer that  is worried about his neibore I wouldn't sweat it . If you really want to know go to the plant were he gets the sludge from and ask for the analysis of it  and ask them at what rate they are applying it at . I do believe that have to do before and after soil test (  I always do)

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Kay/NC
Honored Advisor

Re: human sludge as fertilizer

We do annual soil testing for manure use as nutrient. That's sufficient, sinc results are somewhat time- delayed in terms of noticeable impact, except for N, which isn't analyzed for, but instead is based on crop needs for whatever is planted or proposed to be planted. It is sort of funny that here in the US, people,get works up over use of sewage solids...I would worry ,ore about the hazardous stuff dumped in the waste stream,mand potentially a few pathogens. Night soil is the main nutrient component for crops on mamy areas of the world. History shows that utilizing manure as a soil amendment actually mitigated disaster..which was about one year inn four in England in the period from 1400-1700. When Land no longer had to be laid fallow to allow it to recover from cropping, the farmers could maintain more through the winter, and not have to basically start over each spring. The use of manure nutrients changed the world.
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