Which stick welder should I buy?

[farmerguy89]

I am trying to get into welding, not so much for the saving money part, but for the timelyness of the work. Obviously I am not going to do critical welds in my first little bit here, but with practice I will. Everyone suggests stick for ag.

Everyone suggests stick. How many amps should I get? What should I look for in agricultural applications?

[Nebrfarmr]

Well, for an inexperienced welder, a stick is probably a good place to start.

Look for an AC/DC welder, where the cables plug into the main unit (instead of being hard-wired), so you can reverse the polarity in just a few seconds, if need be.

I would consider 225 amps the bare minimum, 250+ as better.   Not so much that you will often NEED more than 225 amps, but remember that as the welder approaches its maximum output, it loses duty cycle.  Duty cycle, is a measure, of how many minutes out of 10, you can actually weld, without overheating the welder.  Many welders taper off to 10% duty cycle at the high settings, which is roughly two electrodes.  Remember, as you weld thicker materials (that require more amps) you are also talking about welds that will require more rods to complete.  The weld will be stronger, if you don't have to stop and let the welder 'rest' so much.   If you can keep welding, while the base metal is still hot, your welds will have less stress in them, and be stronger.  A 225 amp welder running at 225 amps generally will have a 5-10% duty cycle.  A 250 amp welder might have 30-40% duty cycle, when set at 225 amps, allowing you to do 3-4 times as much actual welding in the same time. 

AC isn't required much any more, except for a few specialized rods, but if you have A/C, you can do cutting with an arc welder.   Not all that precise, when compared to a torch or plasma cutter, but it is a fast way to do demolition work, or just to cut off a mangled part.

DC is what you will be doing most of your actual welding with, and whether straight or reverse polarity is better, depends on the situation. 

As for what brand to buy, I don't consider that too terribly important, as long as it is a reputable maker.

[Hobbyfarmer]

Ne farmer good post.

I might suggest you find a nieghbor with both or maybe the welding shop in your area and see if they will let you use both a stick and a wire welder. Maybe a community type college in your area with a autobody or repair type program. Talk to the instructor and tell him your needs or desires and try both before you decide.

a stick welder for what you are talking a bout can be had at your local farm store for a few hundred dollars. Wire welders will be more expensive and do not get one capable of less than 200 amps. The biggest thing about welding is where are you going to be welding? If out side in the wind is the answer then Stick is the only good answer. Wire welders need No wind locations. If you will be doing your repains in a a shop better consider a wire welder. I have both and almost never use the stick anymore.

[Nebrfarmr]

One comment:   When I got my wire welder, the salesman talked me into the next model up from what I thought I wanted, because it was capable of running thicker flux cored wire.   A couple years back, I bought a spool of .045 flux core wire, and from that day forward, the old arc welder sat in the back corner of the shop, except for one time, when I needed to weld on something high up on the combine.   The gun for my wire welder wouldn't reach, so instead of lift it up with a loader, I used the arc welder because I had extensions for the leads.

I have found that with good flux cored wire, you can weld in just as much wind, and through about as much rust as a stick welder.  You do need to reverse the polarity from gas shielded wire, though, which takes anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes, depending on the welder.

[farmerguy89]

Hey guys, thanks for that so far.

What applications do you use AC for and DC for? I understand both of those describe which way the electricity flows-- i.e. batteries one way, DC, outlets AC- move back and forth. I am guessing it depends on the metal and surface cleanliness/thickness?

I have found one that is capable of 225A in AC and 150A in DC. Should I insist on having at least 200 amps in DC?

Also, I understand duty cycle, but you guys made good points about weld strength, if welding is slow and the molten pool cools. Whats the minimum duty cycle that you would even consider using and expect a strong weld?

at 25 VAC and 225 A, and if I was welding out in a field, my generator would be operating at almost 90% capacity... Funny thing is, when I bought it, I thought it was an overpowering generator! I am likely going to have to go to 230/240V plug in to make this work on power and my generator. Otherwise the power switch will kick off.

finally, any suggestions on ones I should look at? Been looking at some from Miller-- either too small or too big. Hobart-- only 20% duty cycle on their biggest model. I'm going to continue my search here on the net. If you guys know what works well, that certainly helps.

I definitely don't want to go MIG, as my mech says most guys can't clean the surface well enough, and wind becomes a severe issue for a lot of guys. He uses only stick, and strongly suggests stick for my application. Of course, he does all his work outside in the elements, so obviously he is using stick.

[Hobbyfarmer]

The DC side will always be a smaller #.

You are over thinking it.

Just go buy a Lincoln AC/DC at the farm store for $450ish. (buy some extra welding cable and the splices so you can get more than 12 feet away from the welder.)

Get 6013 all purpose rod and be done with it. Want to have better luck get the blue coated rod. Most repair work is going to be done in the 130AC or 90 DC area.

Don't spend much on a stick welder because if you do much welding you are going to upgrade to wire. (there is a reason you don't see stick welders in a manufacturing plant)

[Nebrfarmr]

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@farmerguy89 wrote:

Hey guys, thanks for that so far.

What applications do you use AC for and DC for? I understand both of those describe which way the electricity flows-- i.e. batteries one way, DC, outlets AC- move back and forth. I am guessing it depends on the metal and surface cleanliness/thickness?

90% of your welding will be with DC.  It produces a smoother weld, and is easier to use.   AC is basically just for a few specialized rods, and for cutting.   However, most DC welders also do AC.   When I said AC/DC, I meant over AC alone.   The welders I have seen, are not DC only.

I have found one that is capable of 225A in AC and 150A in DC. Should I insist on having at least 200 amps in DC?

That should be more than adequate for anything you will be doing, unless you are wanting to do fabrication of large projects, and if you do that, you will want a wire welder anyway. 

Also, I understand duty cycle, but you guys made good points about weld strength, if welding is slow and the molten pool cools. Whats the minimum duty cycle that you would even consider using and expect a strong weld?

That kind of 'depends' on how thick the metal you are welding is.  The duty cycle listed (you say you found one at 20%) is for the welder at the highest rating.   That is why I suggested a 225 or bigger welder.   You probably will be doing most of your welding in the 150-200 amp range, and you will get a higher duty cycle at lower settings.  What limits duty cycle, is heat build up within the welder.   The less amps, the less heat build up.   At some point, there will be a setting where the ability of the welder to cool itself, will equal the heat created.   For example, my brother has a Century welder, that is 10% duty cycle at 250 amps, but continuous duty at 180 amps, and 80% duty cycle at about 200 amps.   80% duty cycle is about all anyone can expcect to use, even welding large projects, simply because you have to stop for at least a moment to change electrodes, and chip slag.  For most people, they won't use much over 50-60%.  So, a 225 amp welder, (which will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% duty rating at 180- 200 amps ought to be enough for most farm shop projects.)

at 25 VAC and 225 A, and if I was welding out in a field, my generator would be operating at almost 90% capacity... Funny thing is, when I bought it, I thought it was an overpowering generator! I am likely going to have to go to 230/240V plug in to make this work on power and my generator. Otherwise the power switch will kick off.

Remember, you probably will only turn the welder up that high a couple times a year, if that.  I can't remember the last time I did any actual welding above 200A

finally, any suggestions on ones I should look at? Been looking at some from Miller-- either too small or too big. Hobart-- only 20% duty cycle on their biggest model. I'm going to continue my search here on the net. If you guys know what works well, that certainly helps.

Aboout any welder in the 225-250 max amp range from a good maker should be fine.   Most common electrodes are 1/8 inch, and you rarely need over 180-190 amps with that size of rod, so you will have adequate duty cycle for most any job, but with the ability to run just a little 'extra' heat, on the rare occasions you might need it, like for cutting.  If you don't mind an ugly cut, a high powered arc welder will out cut a torch for speed.

I definitely don't want to go MIG, as my mech says most guys can't clean the surface well enough, and wind becomes a severe issue for a lot of guys. He uses only stick, and strongly suggests stick for my application. Of course, he does all his work outside in the elements, so obviously he is using stick.

Using flux cored wire, will eliminate the wind problem, but you still can't cut through the rust and crud that a stick welder would.   However, I personally, am willing to take that trade off, but some people like to just scrape off the big chunks, and start welding.  I know the suggestion below, was to get some 6013s, and just go from there, but I urge you to practice a bit, so you feel comfortable welding with 7018 rods.   They are a little stronger than 6013s, and are better for fusing dis-similar steels to each other, without becoming brittle.   An example of this, would be welding cattle panels to sucker rods, or pipes to make gates.   The 6013 welds in these cases will be more brittle, and will 'pop' much sooner than a weld with 7018, which will have more 'spring' when an animal hits it.  Myself, I only use the 6013 for a root weld, or when welding upside down (or sometimes a 6011).   The 7018, I use for pretty much everything else.

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[Nebrfarmr]

PS when I suggested 225 Amps or bigger, I meant 225 MAX amps, and the max amps are usually rated in AC, because going through the DC converter will cause you to lose some.

The 225 AC and 150 DC would fall under what I'd call big enough for farm work.   That is enough to handle a 1/8 inch rod, which is probably the biggest you will be using.

One thing to note, is that with a stick welder, your max power requirements are regulated by the size of the electrode.  A 1/8 inch rod, for example, only requires a certain amount of current, and for thicker metal, you go another pass (which is why I like a fairly high duty cycle, if it takes 3 passes, the quicker you can stack the welds on top of each other, while still hot, the less stress you will introduce into the beadss.  I like to chip slag, peen it just a bit, and go. 

It is when you get a wire-feed welder, that output REALLY matters, because with a wire feed, the biggest factor on how much power you will need, is the thicikness of the metal you are welding.

[JacobMcCandless]

I am interested in the Global Industrial StickWeld 250™ 250 AMP Stick Welder.  It would need garden sized cables to go with it.  The arc is like a pin so if you go over ~150 amps regardless of stick size or material size you have to into the weld rather than backhand and use extra pennies and drop it into water hard to deslag.  Even then it is going to need something like 7018 to finish the sides of the weld which can be pinged off.  Clamp the material to aviod warping.  I like sand and a baking soda solution to wash the weld work and hard paraffin wax on my electrodes.  Not to much because it can volitalize.  Not like fire is that big of a deal at that point.  Charcoal makes good hard small welds but I get rust like that.  Again pennies would help.

[foxy farmer]

My first welder was a century ac/dc 295 amp. Until I got a wire feed in 1991 i loved this welder esp welding with DC i self taught myself alot. Get a good welding book as well to understand the different metals and what rods to use . With practice you will catch on fast. When you think you got a piece of steel filled with perfect beads use a chop saw and cut it in half and check for voids and penetration. Good luck