Big Oil's Propaganda Machine

[NDf]

Dairy mom they have been making plastic out of grain for quite a while now. The plastic on the JD combines is made from grain.

[sonoma72]

I don't mean to offend either, although my wife tells me i am too kurt.   My view is simply, what are the rules of the game?   "IF" it is to feed the world, and we have an obligation to do so, then put all land into the most efficient use, to gain maximum protein and human health.  However, this would mean what?  "IF" there is no legal and moral obligation to produce the "most" efficient use of food off the land, then the food/fuel debate should be deep sixed.  Does Brazil have a duty to eliminate its ethanol program and put all that land back into food production?  What I currently see is a bunch of groups hiding behind the skirts of "big oil" and shooting darts at something that is costing them money, that is the real concern, nobody cares about lives, they never have.    In the next farm bill farmers will give up a bunch of subsidies and mandates thinking they have appeased the monster, the surprise will be on us, we will have appeased nothing and will have to give up more.  And when you have gave up all your subsidies, what is there left to take?   We will find out shortly.

[dairy mom]

part of the problem as my husband tells me is America has never been hungry.  Europe values their farmers because there still are some people who remember not having food. The American public does not value nor truely appreciate their food nor the farmers and ranchers that give it to them.

[DW11]

The Milken Institute estimate of $14 a gallon for the "real" cost of gas is interesting.  I once argued on this forum that the real costs of gas were $9 or $10 a gallon when an opponent of ethanol argued that the real costs of ethanol were something like $5 or $6 a gallon.  I guess my figure was a lowball figure because it did not include the costs to our nation for the casualties and injuries sustained defending the oil supplies.  The Milken estimate is probably more accurate.

Yes, it would be nice for the ethanol lobby to pick up on this except for the fact that Milken has such a tainted name.  Reading up on him, it appears he has done a lot of good for the country which I was not aware.  Still, he is a convicted fellon and the inspiration for the "greed is good" movement of the 1980's.   You would think that there would be another think-tank with similar research.

[teaspoon73]

      When you send a barrel of oil to a refinery , they cracked it into many different components,jet fuel, gas, naphtha,diesel fuel , plastics, paraffin wax,all the way down to asphalt.They can change the end components pecentage somewhat depending on price and time of year. When a bushel of corn is fed to animal, you produce meat, or milk, and manure.Now to more efficiently use that acre of land producing that bushel of corn, break it down into its basic components. Corn to starch to sugars, corn oil,  co2, , alcohol, and distilled grain and syrup. Now you effectively using that bushel of corn. You can get corn starch for food, and corn syrup for a sweetener, corn oil for cooking or for fuel, co2 for cabonation, dry iceand aeosol, alcohol for industrial useand fuel and human consumption, distilled grain goes back to feed animals for meat and milk and manure, syrup is for livestock feed to enhance low quality cellulose feed stock . To make the most out of that kernel of corn ,it has to be broken down, into basic components. There are more biorefining components to come to the market. The different uses on a kernel of corn are expanding. When the American .farmer gets only 16% of the food dollar the problem lies on the other end. The food processer and retailer have been for the last 20 years taking the cream of the food dollar.

[nitefarm]

Your husband is right.

[Artifice]

Sadly ethanol has disasterious economics and isn't legit.

Big oil like any industry uses PR.

As long as folks don't stop buyi8ng so much, yes we need more drilling.

Ngas is 4, very cheap, if you can use it over petro

[DW11]

Artifice,

Big Oil has disastrous economics for this country.  If we weren't paying big oil's tab for military intervention in the Middle East in addtion to the government tax breaks and incentives, gas would already be $6-9 a gallon and the alternative fuels would be coming out of the woodwork.  Ethanol has reduced the price of gas by 25 to 40 cents a gallon.  That's 35 billion to 55 billion dollars that US consumers kept in their pocket.

Ethanol isn't legit?  So the 13 billion gallons of ethanol produced last year and 14 billion gallons projected for 2011 do not actually exist.  Nor do the hundreds of plants and thousands of jobs here in America?