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WCMO
Senior Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

Do you work for a chemical company?

I've been on the receiving end of "off-target" dicamba damage last 2 years in a row.  Damage looked terrible, yet later additional growth looked okay, and yields not actually hurt much overall.  Still, the point is that MY yields should not have been hurt at all by my neighbors' chemical choices.  I don't care if the applicator followed all the rules exactly, it doesn't matter, if the damage appears, it's still damage.  Yet, if the applicator followed all the rules, it's because of the problems with the chemical itself.

That said, I did not want to get anyone in trouble, I did not officially report my damage to anyone other than the neighboring farmers and applicators, seed dealers and agronomists who looked at fields.  Also did not insist on collecting anything for damage.  Payments for damages were only offered in 1 instance, and I did not collect, although the offer was appreciated.

I detest being "forced" to buy dicamba-tolerant beans as a defensive measure (or to get better-yielding varieties), and it's looking like I might regret having done so for 2020.

sdholloway56
Senior Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

An aside-

a well known phenomenon whereby occasionally dicamba damage results in significantly higher soybean yields.

Although it is like all the years of work with growth regulators- nearly impossible to replicate and only occasional.

Do not try this at home.

Used to be true also of Dyanap. On that stuff they should have put on the label to go fishing for a week after application because it looked like it had killed the beans.

Also very difficult to replicate.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

in the sw..... the 24d'ish cuping of leaves on beans was a constant.... always labeled as herbicide damage (I often wondered if it were excessive heat and low humidity related...)  The yields went up as it got worse.... Time application of late season water really loads those pods stacked tightly on short stalks.

With the new tollerent varieties we saw healthy bean leaves for the first time..... they looked scary.   Like a new problem emerging in the hard to kill weed category.   Did yields go up...... no.  If anything they went down.

Beans are not my favorite crop..... like a bad employee-or boss in some cases-- that needs a little stress to do his best.

The most often used label for beans from my friends in Iowa.... "Beans are lazy"

Well in sw, we specialize in stressful climates.    This falls into those "hard to replicate" category.  But IMO if the use of dicamba stops then bean yields across the midwest will go down.

The number of complaints filed is hard to seperate from the "desire to litigate" movement in the US that continues to grow against the monopoly corporations congressional action continues to produce. (Or the desire of the 9th circuit to "rule the world"...)   It is very hard to seperate actual loss due to a chemical, as opposed to any other source of stress on the plant.  Although --- "expert witnesses can be bought at a price"

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

WCMO    ---- that is absolutely right...... The whole dicamba project was based on the sale of higher priced beans.... not the sale of a chemical..... or the use of a chemical.......... just a marketing tool.   To drive seed costs up.

------------------

Hobby  ----- was also right on dicamba.  It has never been a good herbicide.  Primarily a companion chemical, making other thing hotter or combined with something making target weeds go down faster.... shady stuff.

Like saying it is the aroma of coffee that makes it desirable -- although the level of caffene in the aroma is non existent.  But that "aroma" knows no boundaries, infects neighbors and folks down the street.  Turns customers away from the ham and eggs in favor of the $10 danish at starbucks along with the $8 cup of aroma...... and a strong caffene jolt of stress.   -----------  Well the 9th circuit would be going after those who carry that cup of aroma across legal boundaries just because 49 judges on one court are ambitious and are imune to election.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

I have never understood the amazing love affair agronomists have with dicamba.   (and primarily its expensive companion product "Status".)  I thought the advent of Calisto would wipe out the use of dicamba.  

I always wondered how much kickback money came back to the recommendation side of use.

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dancy5680

Quote ---'Temperature inversions only effect off target movement at application. There is no volatility. University research has failed to link temperature driven off target movement." 

dancy maybe you need to try a different or a real university..... the volatility of dicamba and the companion herbicides it is sprayed with is historically well proven.  I personally have experienced damage to a neighbor 1/2 mile away on wind that occurred 3 hours after application.(6 a.m. application and a 20 degree rise in temp along with a 20 mph sw wind increase at 9 a.m.)  -- I replanted the location for him.

second point..... volatility defines any off target movement or ability to damage crops not sprayed, at any time including at application... 

Third point...... the advent of "low drift nozzles" and their popular use was brought about by the volatility of many herbicides including dicamba.  Dicamba which by the way, was first used in 1962.... The University research statement claim is totally false....... or has a purposeful is lacking in qualifiers....... temperature inversion enhances and extends volatility in air movement.  --------Half truth is not the truth.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

dancy5680

Another thing------- welcome to the forum.... we appreciate your input...

Smiley Happy

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dancy5680
Visitor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

A 6 am application is asking for trouble from a temperature inversion. The problem was not the increase of temperature, but the temperature inversion at the time of application Label requires spraying 1 hour after sunrise, and 2 hours before sunset. MUST be a minimum of 3 mph wind, NOT blowing toward a sensitive crop. 

Volatility is the movement of the herbicide after application in a gaseous state.  Off target movement is the physical drift of the spray droplet at the time of application.   Engenia, is a re-engineered dicamba molecule, making the dicamba heavy enough to not attach of free Hydrogen and move with the lighter than air molecule, Hydrogen. Xdtendimax with vapor guard technology, uses an additive to accomplish the virtual elimination of dicamba volatization. Pro tip: Any amount of ammonium sulfate in the tank, cancels any vapor protection engineered into dicamba for soybeans. 

Lowdrift nozzles in their early generations, produced large droplets. Easy to understand. The larger the droplet, the sooner (less opportunity to drift) the droplet hits the target or ground, The latest generation, do have large droplets, what makes them unique is their ability to keep the amount of driftable fines, to less that 1.5% of the total spray.  pattern. That is why only approved nozzles are used. 

I am interested in university replicated trials that support your hypothesis. I have looked and found none.

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dancy5680
Visitor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

.then do what smart farmers do and plant Enlist beans next year

Funny 24d suffers from the same potential for off target movement, and volatility


@BA Deere wrote:

No where near all the xtend bean seed sold was intended to to be sprayed with xtend, some companies like I believe Kruger only had xtend bean seed.  Some farmers bought xtend seed only for protection from neighbor drift.

Some beans planted in midish April only had a few days left where diacamba could legally be applied anyway. There`s a good 3 weeks left where Flexstar can be applied.  I really don`t see what the big deal is. 

If Zidua Pro was down pre, then flexstar post, you`ll get through this year...then do what smart farmers do and plant Enlist beans next year  Smiley Happy 



.

BA Deere
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

Dancy, the 2,4-D Choline in Enlist isn`t your grandfather`s 2,4-D...it`s not "Esther" .  You can spray Enlist up to R2 beans...wait a minute, why am I selling Enlist beans?  They suck, nobody plant `em heh heh heh  Smiley Happy  

 

Anyway here`s the final word, the Hefty Boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZutLcqF7M

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Hobbyfarmer
Honored Advisor

Re: Dicamba, a complete fiasco but will it solve the soybean carryout problem?

Enlist is what I planted this year