Ethanol PR

[sonoma72]

dw11

I would also applaud you for defending ethanol, but you are wasting your time here.  In the farming community there are those that grow grains, mostly support ethanol, and then there are those that don't, they mostly hate ethanol.  So for many, even if you prove ethanol is a plus, if they have to fall on the sword to support it financially, they won't.   and they will never agree with you anyway.  You can forget arguing about crude and its real price, nobody is listening here.   I would suggest you direct your energies at individuals in places that are action people and will listen.  I would further suggest that when talking to ag groups about ethanol you focus on the ones that are 100% pro ethanol, because some are just farmer organizations by name, ones that don't want to rock the boat.  If you ever contact a congressman/ senator, you better have your poop in a group.  They don't allow you much time and so you need to be concise and to the point. don't be afraid to be yourself either. 

As for grain farmers having no understanding of feeding animals, this is purely ridiculous.  Most of us use to feed animals, have cows and the like.   We raised our own feed, raised our own animals from the roota to the toota.  But oddly enough we all got out, hmmmm.    Did we all want to get out?  Now we are suppose to feel sorry for the local 40,000 head mega BTO owned by the local banker?   An oversimplification obviously.    If it is true that you have to feed tens of thousands of animals to survive, whose fault is that?   So whatever, I am not listening either, hee hee.

[DW11]

Booked,

Now you are speaking Hardnox's language.  Too bad he won't listen.  This is what I was getting at when I was talking about the energy return for oil.  I knew deepwater and tar sands were inefficient energy producers.  People like Hardnox look at the energy efficiency of ethanol, but they never look at oil itself.  They just assume that extracting oil from the ends of the earth is efficient.  Thanks for helping to debunk the energy efficiency myth of oil.

[jrsiajdranch]

DW I was gonna post a big response but I figured it would be like two bulls beating there heads against each other all day and I already have a headache.   SSSSOOOOOo Here is my answer.  Just get the facts straight. 

MD_DA955                                                                        
DA                                                                              
MD DA955   CCC Purchases (Daily)                                                

MADISON, WI.  April 8, 2011 (REPORT 14)                                        

CCC PURCHASES, KANSAS CITY, MO                                                            
                                                                                          
                 CCC PURCHASES (CONTRACT BASIS) OF DAIRY PRODUCTS (POUNDS)                
                                                                                          
             : FOR APRIL 7, 2011                           :     CUMULATIVE TOTALS        
             :    TOTAL     :   CONTRACT   :   ADJUSTED    :      SINCE    :  SAME PERIOD 
             :  PURCHASES   : ADJUSTMENTS  :   PURCHASES   :    10/01/10   :   LAST YEAR  
BUTTER       :              :              :               :               :              
 Bulk        :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Packaged    :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Unsalted    :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
TOTAL        :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
CHEESE       :              :              :               :               :              
 Block       :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Barrel      :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Process     :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Mozzarella  :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
TOTAL        :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
NDM          :              :              :               :               :              
 Nonfort     :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :      132,276 
 Fortified   :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
 Instant     :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :       -0-    
TOTAL        :       -0-    :       -0-    :        -0-    :        -0-    :      132,276 

                                                                                          
   CCC ADJUSTED PURCHASES FOR APRIL 7, 2011 (POUNDS)                                      
                                                                                          
             :               BUTTER                    :                                  
REGION       :     BULK    :   PACKAGED  :   UNSALTED  :                                  
CENTRAL      :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  
WEST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  
EAST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  

                                                                                          
             :                  CHEESE                               :                    
REGION       :     BLOCK   :    BARREL   :    PROCESS  :  MOZZARELLA :                    
CENTRAL      :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :                    
WEST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :                    
EAST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :                    

                                                                                          
             :             NONFAT DRY MILK             :                                  
REGION       : NONFORTIFIED:  FORTIFIED  :   INSTANT   :                                  
CENTRAL      :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  
WEST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  
EAST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :                                  

             CCC ADJUSTED PURCHASES SINCE 10/1/10 AND SAME PERIOD LAST YEAR (POUNDS)             
             :           BUTTER          :          CHEESE           :      NONFAT DRY MILK      
REGION       :   2010/11   :   2009/10   :   2010/11   :   2009/10   :   2010/11   :   2009/10   
CENTRAL      :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 
WEST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :     132,276 
EAST         :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 
TOTAL        :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :           0 :     132,276 

                                                                                                 
Source: Farm Service Agency, Kansas City, MO                                                     
        Disseminated by USDA, Dairy Market News - Madison, WI                                    
1200C   (608) 278-4200                                                       

[DW11]

Sonoma,

I know that Hardnox and ethanol detractors in general will not be swayed by my arguments.  They have made up their mind and that is that.  This is more of an outlet for my frustration at the misinformation agenda pushed by Big Oil to try to crush ethanol.  Also, maybe there are some people who are ambivalent about ethanol and who read our debates and begin to see the ethanol side of the story.  Mostly, I just can't stand to see Big Oil's agenda being pushed on a farm website. 

 Have a good day.

[DW11]

JR,

You can feel free to decipher the information for me JR since you know the facts better than I.  You are saying CCC does not buy up dairy products to support the dairy industry and that your dairy products are not mandated as part of the school lunch program and that the dairy program has not been aimed at controlling the supply of dairy in the US to support prices and that there are no tariffs keeping foreign dairy out of this country?

I'm not against your industry by any means, but if you are living in a glass house, I wouldn't throw stones were I you.

[NDf]

Sonoma you talked about BTO in the livestock industry the ethanot bashers love to bring up that its forceing the little guy out of the industry, but the fact is the trend to BTO's happen long before ethanol production ramped up. They complain about high corn prices for feed,but the truth is that they failled themselves by not locking in at lower prices. Most are still living in the past when they diidn't have to worry about hedgeing ther inputs, because corn was always cheap They would rather put energy in complaining than learn to live in the new world  BTW we still have livestock, but we are also grain farmers so we are diversified. I guess we are still old school in that we know that sooner or latter that the livestock sector will help the grain part of our operation. Actualy right now we are seeing the best of both worlds with profits in both..

[sonoma72]

There is an old saying, "better look under the sheets to see who you are sleeping with."  Many ag groups will be in for a big surprise when they find that the people they are allying themselves with on ethanol have them right in the cross hairs, while at the same time they are alienating another group of farmers.  It will be interesting to see where this all shakes out.  But you are right to be concerned, because ethanol and ag in general are about to learn the true definition of fending for yourselves.  That is why my current opinion on this boom, is to get out of debt as fast as possible.

[GoredHusker]

I agree with your sentiment.  When the presidential campaigns were going on a few years back, it was very interesting to see who the farm groups aligned themselves with.  We'll definitely see whether they were on the right side or not shortly.  A person can go back through the charts and see that price spikes never last.  However, there will always be those that think the good times will just continue to roll on.  While we may very well not take out similar numbers this go around with comparison to the 80's because they're just not there, we will undoubtedly take out a share.  The biggest problems I see right now are twofold.  The guys who are getting out of debt as fast as possible are those in their late 50's to mid-60's.  Those who are accumulating big debts right now are those in their 30's and 40's.  When it hits the fan, those out of debt will be old enough that they'd like to retire.  However, who will be left to buy their operations when we knock a lot of the farmers in their 30's and 40's out?   

[Palouser]

You don't need to resort to gratuitous exaggeration and distortion regarding my beliefs about government policy! I find it suspect as to what your motivation is, though I think I can guess.

Please, bring up the quote that corresponds to your allegation and we'll discuss it - and the topic being discussed at the time, and see how well it measures up to your charges.

I expect you no longer see the US as a 'formerly free' country as you can say whatever you please without taking proper responsibility.

[kraft-t]

Why subsidize it and put tariffsagains brazilian ethanol? Good questions! Perhaps because they want to give a flegling industry a chance to learn how to fly. Or the real reaso is to hire oil companies to move the ethanol through their pumps AKA blenders credits. Think of the high dollar investment to build the infrastructure to market ethanol seperately through independent stations.