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patriot3031376
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

Sonoma...I am hard to offend but quick to defend. I am glad there are guys like you who "get it" pertaining to the ethanol situation. Most of what I read on here is regurgitated drivel that has no base facts.

 

The ethanol industry is in a state of change. VEETC is gone after 12-31-11. It will NOT be back in it's present form. There are many options being discussed at high levels to replace it. These include a producers tax credit, variable rate tax credit, consumer credits.and several more. To complicate things more there are several versions of each of these to explore. Also, the major players such as ACE, Growth Energy, RFA, and NCGA have different viewpoints on them. The Ethanol Alliance is showing a few cracks. There is also the question of what to do with the tarriff in each scenerio. It is a very complex situation. I do not like any subsidies for any industries and that pertains to ethanol also. However, until congress strips ALL subsidies from all competing energy sources I feel it is unfair to pick on ethanol. Why should we give it all up when oil,wind,solar,and other sources are highly subsidized? As an American taxpayer I wish they were all on a level playing field....no subsidies at all.

 

As far as getting off your can and doing something about it , you have my support. In the last month I have been in DC to talk to my congressman, I have talked one on one with my senator's ag aid, I have been to the ethanol conference,and will be going to the NCGA corn congress at Classic this week to make changes to our ethanol policies. I wish my peers were as passionate as I.

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Nebraska Sandhiller
Frequent Contributor

compare farm land used to fatten cattle w / with out ethanol

I thank you for your work promoting ethanol.  I would have a hard time selling candy to a kid!

 

I would like to see the results of a study from someone far smarter than myself, on the acres of farmland used to fatten a pen of steers from weaning on until the packing plant.  This would be using rations used in the past, with lots of alfalfa and soybean and corn silage in the ration vs the acres used with present rations with lots of distillers grains and a limited amount of alfalfa and soybeans in the ration, less corn silage and lots less corn.

 

I know when distillers came into use, the alfalfa acres dropped dramatically.  Local back grounding lots use no straight corn in their rations anymore. Alfalfa and soybeans are grown on land suitable for farming.  Lots of the roughage in the rations like grass hay and stover do not use up farmland acres.

 

I believe the answer to this could very well blow the wind out of the sails of the food vs fuel debate. 

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

I think the only ironclad argument for ethanol is the environmental one- as an oxygenating agent.

 

The problem is with the extremely aggessive mandate levels and timeline. As I've said many time, 10 bg would have been huge for ag but 15 risks blowing the whole thing to smithereens.

 

So when the production cost per acre gets to $1000 you'll have to lobby for 20?

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patriot3031376
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

Ah...another hugely misguided notion....corn ethanol is NOT mandated. The RFS2 says we need to have X amount of biofuels per year in our nations supply chain. The other alternative fuels have not stepped up to the plate thus corn ethanol has taken the lion's share of the mandated gallons. Another victory for corn ethanol proponents.

 

Not quite following the rest Noxie. Do you mean E10 vs. E15 &20? Sorry. What do production costs have to do with mandates or blends?

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

Waht a bunch of baloney- you can't mandate technology, ergo, corn is the only option to meet the mandate.

 

My point is that the farm community has now hitched its wagon to a preposterous government pork barrel program. With production costs up sharply it may become necessary to beg for more if supply ever catches up.

 

 

So sure, go for e-20, or a 20 bg mandate.

 

Or the whole agricuoltural business structure blows to smithereens if we have a severe production problem before we get there.

 

But bottom line, a 15 bg ethanol output adds about 1% to our total national energy supply, if you are very generous.

 

 

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patriot3031376
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

I take it you enjoy energy dependence Nox.

 

Corn is not the only option. Corn ethanol is the only nonadvanced biofuel that has risen to the challenge. Who's fault is that?

 

I assume you blame corn ethanol for increased production costs. How do you connect those dots?

 

Nobody here said anything about E20 or a 20 bg mandate.

 

Or the whole ag business structure blows to smithereens if we have a 15 b bushel corn crop with no ethanol production.

 

But bottom line....1 out of 10 gallons of gas is now ethanol.

 

I will never understand how any midwestern corn farmer (with livestock interests or not) can bash an enduser like you just did.

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

hi patriot,

 

I was hoping you were reading all this ####.  I am not going to argue the point anymore, as you will find, you might as will jump into a pool without water.  Even if you win every statistical argument, or even a sense of "patriotism", the ace in the hole is that american farmer's have a "duty" to produce cheap food for the world.  Don't you know you are the cause of the Egyptian and Libyan uprisings.  don't you know you are the reason coffee is up 100% in a year?   Don't you know you caused gold, silver,oil and even the housing bubble.  My favorite, Indain onions.  Ethanol caused an onion shortage in India, and now they are appeasing the Pakastanis.   Talking points, I think the other side has way more than we do.  What ethanol supporters need to realize is  they need to keep ontop of things.  I work at husker harvest days every year, and too many farmers have the attitude of ,"you get my checkoff money, what else do you want?"  That attitude has to change.   We need more activity and passion, so we are as passionate as those that oppose us.  

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cowfarmer
Senior Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes Sonoma and patriot

    If ethol is so great, why cant it stand on its own two feet. Take the tax break out of it and it is not even on the market. No private company that has too make a profit, would touch ethanol without uncle sam's help. We have a huge debt, crumbling infrastructure, a militray that is stretched way too thin and losing morale, and all you fatcats want to do is suck off the gov all you can. So you can keep six dollar corn and buy new paint and pickups. I realize this is emotional but I think that the current state of the economy warrants some big changes in some of this spending. I've said before that I spent two years in Vietnam, I can't believe how much this whole country has changed since then. I was younger then and probably didn't realize how devisive things were. But I do believe now that this country has grown so far apart as far as what the libs believe and the conservatives believe, that this whole thing is gonna start crumbling. Your Al Gore and I'm Mike Savage, where would we ever find compromise. I see dark days for this country coming, hope I'm wrong, but we are broke financially and I think we have lost a lot of our independent enterprising spirit.  No offense intended, I could just never imagine my dad or grandad throwing a temper tantrum over what the gov gave or mandated or didn"t give. God help us.

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

Patriot,

 

As you survey the landscape of ethanol opponents, what would be the conclusion?  The conclusion is( to make everyone happy), you have to shut down the plants, as long as you can "burn" up any surplus a certain crowd won't be happy, and then you still haven't won the battle.   There will always be a line of opponents with "better arguments than yours,"  "your dumb and we're smart".  Look no farther than  the crowd whom claims food/fuel has a bigger agenda, the bleeding hearts.  One that you can not appease.  Perhaps you have read Michael Pollen's books(sold millions of copies), he has several, and has been on Oprah.   I have read "The Omnivore's Dilemma," and "In Defense of Food."   What you will find is they don't just want you to not burn corn for ethanol, they don't want you eating corn and they dont' want you feeding corn to animals.  heck they don't want you growing corn at all, too much Carbon13 in your system.   I might add he can be very convincing, especially if you need a reason to hate corn.  Who reads these books, lots of people, more people than farm in this country.  So basicaly they want control of your land, whether physically or through policy.  So do you open Pandora's box, cave into one group you may have sympathy for and by doing so the wolf gets in?  IMO the only option is to forge ahead.     

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GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Ethanol supporters take notes

Patriot, I have a quick question for you.  What do you deem as being energy independent?  If my math is correct, we could use every bushel of corn produced here in the U.S. for ethanol and it would still only produce roughly 25% of our annual gasoline use.  Is this energy independence? 

 

 

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