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rayjenkins
Veteran Advisor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

My local blender pump sells e-15 for a nickel less than e-10

 

have driven about 1,000 miles with e-15, and have not seen a drop in mileage (2004 Saturn L200)

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

Apparently it depends on the engine but I think the sweet spot is somewhere in there- between 10 and 20% depending on compression ratio and displacement.

 

Sort of a reminder of how the world ought to be if it was rational, which it certainly isn't.

 

Mandate should have been about 6-7% to meet EPA need to replace MTBE then let the market feel out the outer bounds of where it works.

chipster22
Veteran Contributor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

FWIW, Husqvarna does not want higher than 10% ethanol used in its equipment.

 

They are also concerned about the alcohol drawing water into the fuel.  They recommend shaking the container with an ethanol blend to avoid pouring two high of a concentration of water into the tank.

 

http://ethanol.husqvarna.com/

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GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

I don't think it's just husqvarna.  Most warrantees on vehicles specifically state no more than a 10 percent blend.  Three years ago, there were several locals who had their warranty voided on new vehicles because they used higher than a 10 percent blend.  They were caught when they started having injection failures as the auto companies made the mechanics pull samples and send them in.  I wonder what happens to those warranties with E15 approval?  Does the auto company just waive it?  Is the driver on his/her own?   

 

Anything with a plastic or fiberglass tank should never had ethanol put into it.  The alcohol breaks down the plastic and fiberglass causing it to flake which in turn wreaks all kind of havoc on the engine.  This is why almost all major boat manufacturers, small engine manufacturers, etc. have fought ethanol mandates tooth and toenail.  Plus, ethanol has a tendancy to make a plastic float in a carb. feel like a sponge over time.   

 

Anytime something with ethanol blended fuel has been sitting for an extended period of time, it should have the fuel activated.  This is because ethanol and gasoline don't mix particularly well together, and have a strong tendancy to separate from one another when left for extended periods of time.  Plus, ethanol is lighter in weight.  The same can really be said with two stroke engines in general as gasoline and oil will separate as well if left for extended periods of time.  I read where one shouldn't even use gasoline that's over three weeks old in a two stroke engine because at that time gasoline is already starting to break down.   

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teaspoon73
Senior Contributor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

   Sweetspot for ethanol is in the 28-32% range for best auto performance. Clean emission on a high octane fuel. Brazil would run its fuel in this area if it had the alcohol to do so. Last Dec it cut back from 25% to 20%,  high price of sugar due to several small crops and high world demand, and a growing demand for fuel in a booming economy. With smaller engines running at higher compression rates, a higher blend of ethanol runs more efficiently.

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

If high compression/smaller displacement engines were to be produced specifically for ethanol then you can do well at about 30%.

 

Unfortunately there is no practical capacity to fuel the US fleet at that level without cellulosic or some other form of ethanol of sizable scale.

 

If you tried to take the US to 30% on grain alone the price of ethanol would drop to 0 because everybody who used to buy it would be dead.

 

The elephant in the room here is what is becoming an inescapable conclusion- that after throwing $billions at it the cellulosic thing was a bust. You can make the stuff but not with anything approaching a positive EROEI.

 

Time to move on to something with more practical potential.

 

GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Ethanol use gets jolt

As far as I can tell, the big money is already starting to bet against ethanol.  In my local area, we basically have 5-6 ethanol plants that have been running for a while now.  Big money has come in and started building unit train facilities.  Within two years, we will have more unit train facilities than ethanol plants.  Five years ago, we had one unit train facility.  It appears to me that big money is betting heavily against ethanol plants viability in the future, so they are building the train facilities to get the grain out of here. 

 

We are already moving onto something that seems more practical at the moment.  While Pickens more than likely won't live long enough to see his vision bear fruit, it will bear fruit just the same.  Natural gas is where we are heading. 

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jrsiajdranch
Veteran Advisor

No comment just an article

Thanks to America, Brazilian ethanol exports are rising

Posted 4/10/2012 2:00 PM by Emerging Money> from Emerging Money in Investing, International, Stocks

 

A recent change in U.S. policy has allowed Brazilian exports of ethanol to increase, the Financial Times reports.

[caption id="attachment_55659" align="alignright" width="220" caption="Crushing sugar cane at a Raízen mill, Brazil: Chopped sugar-cane stalks pass through a series of rollers that crush the cane and squeeze out the juice"] Image courtesy Cosan: http://www.cosan.com.br/cosan2009/web/prnewswire/release/raizen/[/caption]

U.S. ethanol imports from South America's largest country are at their highest level since 2008 because of the elimination of American subsidies for corn ethanol  (an onerous tariff that also prevented Brazilian sugarcane-derived ethanol from competing effectively with American corn ethanol) and the classification of sugarcane ethanol as an advanced biofuel by the EPA.

This development is an important step forward not only for freer trade, but for global food prices and advanced biofuels in general. Sugarcane ethanol production has little effect on world food prices, but the use of corn for biofuel unequivocally does. In addition to corn ethanol's detrimental effects on the price of food, the process to create ethanol from corn is much less efficient and more costly than sugarcane.

The removal of this tariff is a bullish signal for the long-term performance of Brazilian stocks with ethanol exposure like Cosan ( CZZ , quote ), which receives a little under half of its revenues from ethanol production. Brazil is thought to potentially be the world's first sustainable biofuel economy.

Considering that only 0.6% of total available land is used for agriculture , ethanol productivity continues to rise, and the Brazilian government is fostering development in this industry ; stocks like CZZ have the potential to outperform over the next decade as the industry expands.

Over the short-term, however, CZZ may see a pullback due to pressure in global sugar prices and valuation concerns, according to Citigroup. Weather also poses a concern, as do structural impediments.

Currently Brazil is unable to produce enough ethanol for its own consumption, even though it has augmented exports to the United States. However proactive government policy means Brazil's ethanol production and resulting export prowess will increase dramatically over the medium-to-long term.

Further, a strong real will put pressure on Brazilian ethanol stocks as it makes gas and U.S. ethanol cheaper to import and Brazilian-made ethanol more expensive to use as a fuel domestically. A weaker real would allow CZZ to both export more fuel to the United States and other countries looking for biofuel alternatives, as well as make its product more attractive to domestic consumers relative to more expensive fuels denominated in foreign currencies.

Long-term investors should wait for a substantial pullback before entering CZZ, as the stock may be a little rich here. However, investors who take advantage of significant weakness in the stock could be rewarded as Brazilian ethanol production grows over the next few years.

Chart

The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of The NASDAQ OMX Group, Inc.


Read more: http://community.nasdaq.com/News/2012-04/thanks-to-america-brazilian-ethanol-exports-are-rising.aspx...

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