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rayjenkins
Veteran Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

be careful..........the dry mill ethanol industry is moving quickly toward corn oil extraction, which means the energy contect of the DDG's will decrease and reduce that number the RFA is quoting....

 

unfortunately, in the interim it means that DDG's are no longer a homogenous product as, currently, some are removing oil, and some are not.....

 

 

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Mizzou_Tiger
Senior Advisor

ray or whomever.........

is the net/net still zero..........does the extraction of corn oil add back to the system the same or more than its removal from DDG's??????

 

what little digging I did yielded that it would be used for biodiesel????  are there other primary uses?????and the technology can add about $0.14 to ethanol margins, thus about a $0.35 premium on a bushel of corn????????

 

 

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rayjenkins
Veteran Advisor

Re: ray or whomever.........

probably would not show a net decrease in total energy.....would be contained in two products, not one

 

it's not pure enough for refining for human consumption......biodiesel or feed additive......and the total amount removed per bushel is likely not quite as high as what is seen in wet milling where germ is physically separated and then refined using hexane extraction methods..

 

removing the oil via extraction can have some beneficial effects on DDG's.......reducing the oil content can increase inclusion rates in some swine diets.....and removing the oil can make the product flow more easily...

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Nebraska Sandhiller
Frequent Contributor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

Market Eye, now how about some numbers added in to allow for the farm land not used to grow high quality hay.  I believe most of the hay, especially alfalfa  has been mostly replaced in wet distillers rations with corn stalks and junk hay taken from land not suitable for farming.

 

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marketeye
Veteran Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

Are you sitting on some bales of alfalfa you can't get rid of? I understand Nebraska Sandiller (Anywhere close to Valentine?). I digress. I went to college with a buddy from Valentine. That guy was a bullrider. He played tailback on the college football team. But, what I remember most, he used to talk a lot about back home in the sandhills. He loved it and I'm sure is there to this day.

 

Nebraska Sandhiller, you let me know what you want to find out about the future of the alfalfa market and I will let you know what the experts are thinking. Help me out a little bit here.

 

Mike

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Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

OK, I am going to GROSSLY over simplyfy things here, just to make a point.  Just think of this as a loose rule of thumb.

So, while 56# of corn yields 17# of DDGs, our local nutritionist says that the DDGs have almost double the nutrient density of corn (although not double the energy, but for my comparison, that isn't a big deal here). 

One of my brood cows needs to eat 30#+ of hay overwinter, while grazing cornstalks for bulk (a cow needs a certain amount of bulk in her stomach, just to keep the rumen working, but it can be filler such as stalks, or even ground straw) .  Let's assume average winter weather, as storms, and warm spells will make this vary, but again, I'm going with big generalizations.  With no grain, you can keep a cow in good condition overwinter with 20# of alfalfa, and 10# of prarie hay, and only grain the cows when it is colder than average.

The cow can get by eating 15# of alfalfa, and 5-10# of prarie hay, with 5-6# of corn added for a general ration.  More corn can be offset by feeding less alfalfa, provided there are still stalks to eat for filler.  However, except in stormy weather, when the cow needs more energy, you can substiture 3# of DDGs for the 5-6# of corn, for the same basic results (as long as they still have stalks for filler). 

If you have to haul in feed, and pay trucking, you can haul in 10 tons of alfalfa, or 6 tons of corn, or 3 tons of DDGs, and get generally the same results, if you are willing/able to play around a bit with the details.

Which is easiest to haul, store, and feed?

 

Keep in mind, again, these are generalizations, with my cows (smaller, English breeds) and in my weather conditions, and in my situation which includes some brush pockets with grass that hasn't been grazed all summer, and plenty of corn stalks.  The guy across the road, may have somewhat different results.


The long winded point I was trying to make, is that for some people 1# of DDGs can be made to sub for 2# of corn, which makes the corn 'disappearance' to ethanol, not as big as it appears to be on the surface.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

Sand......... is right.

 

Lot less alfalfa used in feedlots than used to be.

 

That and water restrictions have taken a lot of alfalfa out of western ks.

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idalivered
Advisor

Re: ray or whomever.........

Ray, are you saying the oil extracted is useable for biodiesel and thus increases net energy result from the process?(and more energy produced per acre) On the production side, i use about the same amount of nitrogen in 2011 as I did when I started in 1977. Now 200 bpa is relatiely common, compared to 145 back then. As always, really appreciate your input.

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marketeye
Veteran Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

Ray,

 

In central Illinois, a few weeks ago, I talked with a guy that works at a very large ethanol plant. He simply is an employee that works in the 'outgoing' (shipping) area of the plant. He says more and more hog operators are feeding DDGs. I thought hogs couldn't eat this stuff? The e-plant worker said they are selling a lot of DDGs to hog guys anymore.

 

Mike

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Mizzou_Tiger
Senior Advisor

Re: Floor Talk October 25

know of several guys that haul DDGs out on truck from a few different plants..........a fair bit of these are going to local feed operations supplying contract hog operations.........yes DDGs are being used extensively now, I think they even upped the allowables in the ration.........near as I can tell, in this instance they are using DDGs up to the max allowable........

 

this kind of information is a very good reason why pulling the plug on ethanol isn't a light switch event..........

 

and to comment on your grocery bill comments from this AM..........its funny, grains are lower now than they have been for a good part of 2011 and off peaks of 2011 and 2008........yet gas and groceries are going up.............HMMMMMMMMMMM...........maybe someone should clue the general public in that its NOT ethanol's fault..........maybe someone should clue them in that probably less than a 1/4 of the cost of most groceries (meat probably higher, but still not near all) is tied to grains.........the rest is tied to overhead, transportation cost, advertising, etc............

 

its very apparent anymore that the price of groceries and gas are only tied to their native commodities when things rise...........and there is a huge disconnect with things fall..........

 

people wanna complain they need to go after the middle man.............

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