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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

On a related topic, I saw Pollan speak a couple of years ago. A strange experience- not because of him but becasue of the crowd. It was apparent that the crowd that came was hugely polarized between new food types and defenders of the status quo and it was clear that both sides were disapponted.

 

I'd consider him, for the most part, to be pretty reasonable although not a dynamic speaker.

 

I don't recall about the HFCS thing but one contentions that he made about sugar was innacurate- that was that sugar is too cheap due to subsidies and that creates a public health problem. Of course we all know that sugar prices are actually artificially high in the US compared to the world market and that historically the only way HFCS worked economically, at least in the old days, was by restricting the import of cane sugar. Just an aside but needs to be noted. The sugar lobby used to be the main political force behind the sugar quota system but then the corn lobby got an interest and is much more powerful.

 

The diet he advocates seems pretty reasonable to me and it is not too far from how we try to eat.  Beef isn't bad, it just needs to be in portion and in proportion to other protein sources. Fruits, vegetables, whole grains etc. We do consume more animal protein that he would advocate but not to a huge extent. For the most part pretty well substantiated by science and not a lot to argue about.

 

I struggle with the whole trans fats thing primarily because science has been all over the board about fats and you wonder what is next. But clearly we are of an age and activity level that doesn't permit high caloric intake and anyway, have come to like olive oil (and butter) and don't eat a lot of processed foods. (but it isn't like I'm going to run screaming away from a snack cracker, either).

 

I guess my problem with the whole thing is this- if everyone ate the way we ought to then the good stuff would multiply in the grocery store and the bad stuff would divide because the market would respond. If we bought what was good (and reasonable) at the farmers market, the market would produce more.

 

I don't know that there is a lot more that can be done other than to educate and to do so in a broad and general manner without chasing every new fad of do's and don'ts.

 If people are willing to pay a price for something above the cost of production it will appear, for the most part.

 

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

I agree, a lot of what he says does make some sense, and therein lies the connundrum.   You can't defend HFCS with catchy ads and simplistic arguements when someone is out making very specific arguments that sound reasonable and  are well thought out, even if they might be wrong, or you disagree with them.  When I saw the first sugar is sugar commerical, I just laughed.   I think it makes us look fooish.  That is all we could come up with?    

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Jim Meade / Iowa City
Senior Advisor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

So, how is your marketing plan informed by your impressions of how others view corn in generall and ethanol and HFCS in particular?  I don't change mine at all, because I don't sell into those markets.  I just sell corn as well as I can.

 

Over the long term, I'll modiffy my cropping plans to make the most money for the long haul.

 

I'm thinking that if I were a younger man, I'd be thinking of putting fences back in and going back to more of a general farm approach to things where I have more control over who I shifted my efforts and assets.  As it is, I'll stay with grain cropping but might shift by corn-bean rotation and might even be persuaded to plant more hay. 

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GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

The HFCS vs. cane sugar debate has been going on for quite some time.  However, this is the first time I've ever heard about HFCS tricking the body.  I have read recently about sugar substitutes in diet pop doing this.  According to the articles I've read, a person is just as well off drinking the regular pop as they are the diet pop because the the diet pop supposedly makes people hungrier causing them to eat more.  Basically, the articles suggest that those that drink diet pop are just as obese as those that drink regular pop.  I agree that obesity will end up costing this country billions if not trillions.  We all whine and complain about our elected officials not being able to have any personal restraint, but how are we as citizens any different especially when it comes to food?  I recently read where the average caloric intake nowdays is just shy of 2400 per day.  It hasn't helped by society becoming as mechanized as it has.  I can't recall a time in my farming life seeing so many 300+ pound farmers waddle into a cab of a tractor.   

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

I think we are seeing the beginnings of a shift in how we farm.  I think you are right, over the long run there will be more "general" farming, because people like the idea of "family farms" with cows and chickens, they like the idea of and I know some don't want to hear it, but of smaller operations that take good care of the animals.  you are right, in the short run, a lot of this maybe doesn't affect your "marketing," but it will in the next 5-10 years.  The problem ag has is, we can't really run ads to counter a lot of what is going on, we can't bash organic can we?   We can't  run an add showing a CAFO or showing a guy spraying his field with roundup?  can we...   I suppose you are right, it is every man for himself, because apparently when it comes to the ag groups that are suppose to be supporting us it is, everything is okay, please dissperse there is nothing to see here, when that isn't the case at all.

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

hey gored,

 

I am not saying the "tricking" the body thing is right or wrong.  I believe more accurately he said the body doesn't recogize it quick enough and therefore you over indulge.  I am just saying this whole thing is a lot more complicated than people think.  People or farmers(more specifically), need to be out and see what is going on, know what people are reading and talking about.  Farmers need to read these books, how can you defend yoursef if you don't know what is being said?   IMO the NCGA does too much "preaching to the choir."  Like I said in another post, you can't defend a very complex argument and analysis with pithy adds.  . 

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hardnox604008
Advisor

Re: Had lunch today at jason's deli

I've casually observed some of the back and forth on HFCS over the years and have concluded that there really isn't any evidence that it is any worse than sucrose sugar.

 

What is true is that both have 0 nutritive value beyond calories. Regardless of type there is little doubt in my mind that sugar is a major component of the obesity problem. For years I'd stop by a convenience store for coffee in the morning and watch folks pouring up the Big Gulps at 6 AM which is like 400 calories to start your day.

 

If the sugars business in general had to make a living off of me they'd fare poorly although I don't have a sweet tooth. Although like salt, I wonder if it is a learned craving that can be unlearned. Dunno, there are different taste types observed among people.

 

There is something to the theme that says that the very convenient abundance of cheap and tasty salt, sugar and fat meals is a public health problem.

 

I just don't know what to do about it other than educate people. In a lot of ways the newest study or diet fad does a disservice about the message that really hasn't changed a lot in 50 years.

 

 

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johnaa
Advisor

Diabetes and different types of sweeteners

   When I learned I have type 2 diabetes I was inspired to do some reading, it's all rather hazy at the moment, I need to put my combine back together real soon and don't have time to refresh memory.  I came to the conclusion to avoid aspartame margarine, HFCS and stick with regular sugar in restricted amounts and use olive oil and a little butter and most importantly high fiber(which I thought came from trees and cotton).  It's all about trade offs while keeping to a good diet, like I can have a chocolate ice cream in a sugar waffle cone if I trade off other foods.   You make your choices and pay the bill.

 

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup

Cane and beet sugar

  Cane sugar and beet sugar are both relatively pure sucrose. While glucose and fructose, which are the two components of HFCS, are monosaccharides, sucrose is adisaccharide composed of glucose and fructose linked together with a relatively weak glycosidic bond. The fact that sucrose, glucose and fructose are unique, distinct molecules complicates the comparison between cane sugar, beet sugar and HFCS. A molecule of sucrose (with a chemical formula of C12H22O11) can be broken down into a molecule of glucose (C6H12O6) plus a molecule of fructose (also C6H12O6 — an isomer of glucose) in a weakly acidic environment by a process calledinversion.[20] Sucrose is broken down during digestion into a mixture of 50% fructose and 50% glucose through hydrolysis by the enzyme sucrase. People with sucrasedeficiency cannot digest (break down) sucrose and thus exhibit sucrose intolerance.[21]

   Fructose is absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by a different mechanism than that for glucose. Glucose stimulates insulin release from the isolated pancreas, but fructose does not. Fructose is metabolized primarily in the liver. Once inside the liver cell, fructose can enter the pathways that provide glycerol, the backbone fortriacylglycerol. The growing dietary amount of fructose that is derived from sucrose or HFCS has raised questions about how children and adults respond to fructose alone or when it is accompanied by glucose.[22]

 

  Artificial sweeteners and debetes---June 15, 2009 (Washington, DC) — People who use artificial sweeteners are heavier, more likely to have diabetes, and more likely to be insulin-resistant compared with nonusers, according to data presented here during ENDO 2009, the 91st annual meeting of The Endocrine Society.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/704432

 

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Nebrfarmr
Veteran Advisor

Re: Diabetes and different types of sweeteners

I really think that a lot of the things that they tout to be healthy or unhealthy are hard to pin down because people can be so different.  Bic Macs were considered certain to make you fat if you ate them, but then there is Don Gorsky, the man who ate over 25,000 Big Macs, and weighs in at around 180#  http://www.wasteoftechnology.com/?p=207

 

http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2010/03/don-gorske-big-mac-prediction.html

 

Personally, I have LOW blood pressure, and it often leaves me at an eating establishment looking for the salt.  It is low enough that in the summer, if I sweat a lot, I can actually get light headed because my BP gets too low.  Salt, fluids, and electrolytes are the simple cure.  The things I almost need to eat to keep my head straight cause a lot of funny looks when I go out to eat.

Until they know for sure, I'd say if it doesn't seem to do you any harm, it likely isn't, provided you use the common sense axiom of moderation.

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kraft-t
Senior Advisor

Re: Did a google search on hfcs

I selected this one because it was more to my liking

 

http://cardhouse.com/berk/highfructose.htm

 

There are several articles discussing and cussing HFCS but i would urge you to look at this one and Mayop clinics comments. The jury is not in on those that are open minded.

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