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Veteran Advisor

Re: Insider Trading

MT,

 

Your EGO is really big and if you want you can start your own post detailing all the "Devastations" in the world that happen on a daily basis.  You have the floor be my guest.  I am just making a comparison, that's it.  

 

Learn to read and debate.  

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Honored Advisor

Re: Insider Trading

The definition of insider trading ...... Gio, seems to me a floating, abstract thing.  We can clearly define each trade decision and argue the case for "insider Trading".  ALMost every time......

In this case...... should the fact that he worked for a business block him from trading their stock,, most employees do ,,, short or long.... I would argue...... no.

In the case of Enron it was not the selling of stock that was criminal, it was the Public promotion for the employees to do the opposite that was criminal...

I know there are laws against trading "not public" information.  But isnt that what we strive for every day....... information that is vital to the trade, before it is publicly digested........  

Explain to me the difference,    example----Grain commercial calls me and wants to know how bad the wheat rust is........ answer worse than expected.......... He raises his basis for a select few producers in this area and contracts thousands of acres of production ...... And I buy a few thousand bushels on the board....... three weeks ago when rust isn't a public topic...........  All insider trading.... I might get prosecuted since I took a position on the board and My friend the grain commercial contracted privately... he will be ok.

Therefore you find the problem...... If it goes up $1.50 a bu. I will get prosecuted for excessive profiteering on inside information.  If it goes down it will be ignored.

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And that defines the problem Gio.  I do have some sympathy, because your neighbor is not being prosecuted for insider trading as much as he is being prosecuted for "Excessive Profiteering".  If it had gone against him no one would have looked........

 

We could all be a target of this.....

 

Mike is Ag.com well enough read to protect us all????    Smiley Happy      Better question, Do we discuss our reasons for decisions before or after the sale ??  Smiley Happy

 

 

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Honored Advisor

Re: Insider Trading

Where would we be if the futures trade were closed to insiders (producers and endusers) to prevent insider trading.....

Or if the stock trade were closed to all employees and their organizations......

It is a very arbitrary law..... that can be applied any time........ 

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Senior Advisor

Re: Insider Trading

no need to start a new thread.  a guy that got caught cheating and now has to pay the price, IS NOT DEVASTATING.

 

its justice

 

next topic

 

do you have a rebutal for what I said in my original reply?

 

or are we square that I called a spade a spade?

 

next topic

 

as for debate on this, it comes down to 2 simple questions

 

did he have information that was non-public at the time he recieved it, irregardless of the source?

 

YOU INDICATED YES

 

next question

 

did he use that information in his decision making process to execute trade/trades that he normally wouldnt have

 

YOU INDICATED YES

 

Pretty clear cut to me

 

As to the comparison.  Two wrongs dont make a right comes to mind

 

Its much easier to pinpoint one indiviudal in what appears to be a clear cut case.  Also, the profiteering comment is really the hand in the cookie jar so to speak.  Its the undisputed evidence as most people act to seek a profit.

 

 

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Senior Contributor

Re: Insider Trading

I agree MT, But I do feel for his wife and children!

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Senior Advisor

Re: Insider Trading

What would be nice is if there was equal treatment under the law.

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Highlighted
Veteran Contributor

Re: Insider Trading


@sw363535 wrote:

The definition of insider trading ...... Gio, seems to me a floating, abstract thing.  We can clearly define each trade decision and argue the case for "insider Trading".  ALMost every time......

In this case...... should the fact that he worked for a business block him from trading their stock,, most employees do ,,, short or long.... I would argue...... no.

In the case of Enron it was not the selling of stock that was criminal, it was the Public promotion for the employees to do the opposite that was criminal...

I know there are laws against trading "not public" information.  But isnt that what we strive for every day....... information that is vital to the trade, before it is publicly digested........  

Explain to me the difference,    example----Grain commercial calls me and wants to know how bad the wheat rust is........ answer worse than expected.......... He raises his basis for a select few producers in this area and contracts thousands of acres of production ...... And I buy a few thousand bushels on the board....... three weeks ago when rust isn't a public topic...........  All insider trading.... I might get prosecuted since I took a position on the board and My friend the grain commercial contracted privately... he will be ok.

Therefore you find the problem...... If it goes up $1.50 a bu. I will get prosecuted for excessive profiteering on inside information.  If it goes down it will be ignored.

----------------------------------

And that defines the problem Gio.  I do have some sympathy, because your neighbor is not being prosecuted for insider trading as much as he is being prosecuted for "Excessive Profiteering".  If it had gone against him no one would have looked........

 

We could all be a target of this.....

 

Mike is Ag.com well enough read to protect us all????    Smiley Happy      Better question, Do we discuss our reasons for decisions before or after the sale ??  Smiley Happy

 

 

Wrong answer with respect to insider trading.  ANYBODY can go outside and see if wheat rust is prevalent.  Your not the only one with access to that information.  MATERIAL NONPUBLIC information is information that only a very few individuals have access to, for instance financial statements that the CFO has access to and shares with his broker or others.  Continue with the trader bashing Smiley Happy 

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Veteran Contributor

Re: Insider Trading

Thanks for the post SW 363535 because it caused me to think of something else.  Therein lies the reason why people pay for information (whether it be the Wall Street journal, Bloomberg or otherwise)  from reputable sources to avoid getting convoluted information from free sources. 

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Veteran Contributor

Re: Insider Trading

Hey MT

I can see where you think the guy needs to pay a penalty

However, I don't see where you have the same harsh feelings for the bank CEO's that paid a  fine, only and no jail time

Is the crime not some whar similiar, as to the guilty or not guilty part of the equation

It so happenss that the fine the banks paid was paid from my stock dividend, not the people responsible

I call a foul on this kind of treatment, with my money which I did not want to pay, for their defense, as they were found guilty of a crime

I think that if the CEO knows and actively promotes illegal activity, that results in a fine, paid by myself, then something is definitely wrong

Why does the CEO of the bank not have jail time and a personal fine

As for bank trading and comparison to farm producers, you lost me on that one

I can understand the rust isssue, a bit more, but that is info that is available, if you look for it or ask the proper people

How many knew about the drought of 2012 ahead of others. That knowledge is a fine line, that is a fact of trading.

Tthat kind of thing happns and was public, for those that wanted to know or some wanted to wait for more info, like myself

Unfortunately, I have found from perssonal experience, that justice is not what we think it is or should be

More often, justice is won or avoided, as the case may be, by who ever has the most experienced and skillful lawyer and the most money

Obviously, the banks had a lot of money and very good lawyers, to defend the CEO's with my [and many others] dividend money

Try that same stunt [as the banks did] with a privately held corp. and personal limited funds for lawyers and see if you [the CEO] can avoid jail time

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Senior Contributor

Re: Insider Trading

More than likely comes down to not what you know but who you know.

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