Red, you support my point

[rawhide]

Let's just print another couple of trillion--that seems to work well.

[Palouser]

If a couple of trillion (I have no idea what amounts = what results) was spent on infrastructure repairs and improvements (and I don't think that always means asphalt and bridges) that are going to eventualy be needed or will result in a return to the economy, there is no reason that it couldn't be a net positive. Just because a number is bigger than we experience in counting acres or animals doesn't mean it is unrealistic.

After WWII we were up to our eyeballs in debt after the unprecedented government spending required. In a few years we'd reconverted industry to consumer production and went on a long expansion, all while training a huge amount of returning soldiers in a rapidly expanded educational system undder the GI bill.

Results can be had but we need to have efficient and nonideological planning.

[sw363535]

It is hard to support your "do nothing congress" claim. When we are continuing to expand and realize laws and rules from laws passed 5-10 yrs back. Congress has been on a mandate regulate and mandate binge for 20 years.
I love the idea of congress as do nothing. I just wish we could make that retroactive for 25-30 years.
To a time when we were fixing problems we didn't create or imagine.
Speaking of fixing problems. When will anyone in the administration show any leadership in Ferguson.
There is no sense in waisting ink to send anything to our leadership void.

[Palouser]

What kind of federal role do you see for Ferguson beyond the investigation and decision there was no evidence to lay charges against the officer in the original case? Just curious.

[r3020]

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@Palouser wrote:

I would be against defunding the EPA as I don't think it is a problem for the middle class. If competing on a 'level playing field' means letting our commpanies pollute at the level of Chinese companies then the cost would actually be huge. China is finding this out. It would offer no help to the middle class except make quality of life go down.

As I've been pointing out, the middle class isn't going to buy cars because of lower fuel costs. And they aren't going to retail either. They want out of this game. This is not just a matter of savings on fuel. It runs deeper.

I realize it is apparently more obvious to me than others that we have a systemic economic problem with middle class economics. But the examples are out there as to where we're going. I suppose we could support the middle class with more subsidies like we do farmers but I don't think that's the way to go.

Congress HAS to get off it's ass and shows no sign of doing so. They're wasting time playing schoolyard games.

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We are not polluting at anything near what the Chinese are polluting yet we are shutting down our coal fired power plants in favor of Chinese made windmills and a great cost to our industries and to our middle class. Throw in mandates like the tier 4 engine and we hammer the middle class again.

[sw363535]

A roll that stops violence when local social structure breaks down.  

That doesn't have to be a military roll, which might well be necessary.

But a leader who runs on "community organization" experience should not be distancing himself or his Attorney from this community.

We should be seeing a serious ability to improve conditions in this community.  Not one who is scared of the political ramifications.

It appears the very issue of race, that helped his election is an issue the white house is scared of.

  The precidents for federal action are numerous. Inner city rioting.  University integration.  Union disturbance of air traffic. Natural diseasters from tornado's to hurricanes.  Oil spills in the gulf.  College rioting.  Looking back we have some good examples of federal intervention on issues local governance can't handle.  If any one issue shows this president was not qualified, this one does.

Just my opinion......

What an amazing opportunity to achieve respect and support.  No one stepped up, not even in an advisory capacity.

The breakdown of order is a bigger factor than the investigations

[sw363535]

Don,

On the subject of paying for the retirement of the next generation.  What you leave out is that our generation of retirees demands a highly inflated retirement compared to the one you helped finance.

We need to stop fooling ourselves into thinking that inflated dollars are economic growth.  They are the worst tax of all.  Our age groups parents could drive a car for $2500 and own a house for $35k.  Our age group needs 40k to drive a car and can't afford repairing their home.  

If retirement is going to work we cannot keep handing that kind of debt to our children....... It is the price we pay for a government that thinks it can pay its borrowing bills with devalued dollars.

 At the same time, we ask our children to take jobs with a 5 year life while we ship jobs overseas with free trade agreements.  

Public policy has to be held accountable at some point.  And Social Security is one of those things that pay a terrible price for bad public policy....   Stop blaming our young workers,  they are caught in a very bad position......

[Palouser]

I don't think federal action due to every breakdown in 'social order' is desired or desirable. One of the main criticisms of the early action was the 'over reaction' by local/regional police forces in Ferguson. They had the force, they had the tools and armaments to put down nearly anything without the Feds help (well, the Feds DID help with equipment that was seen as innappropriate to use for the situation).

I think the real role for the Feds in the background is to check on the claims and counter claims regarding the quality of justice in a community divided. Community reaction can be a warning that things are off kilter. The officer that killed the young man may have acted correctly but perhaps the community reaction to the incident was because there are grounds and history for citizens to suspect justice was not served.

Holder has investigated the Ferguson police department and city administration of it and has discovered some real problems. Like quotas of fines to support the budget essentially being levied on a class of citizens.

Prescribing Federal action quickly in an incident like Ferguson is a sure way to fire up people's suspicion of 'jack booted thugs' directed by a President who is a secret communist and the Manchrian candidate from ISIS. Crazy, but there it is.

[sw363535]

Quickly??  How many months has it been?  

As a society we find the blame that causes the crime, and that needs to be addressed.  But there is no excuse for ignoring the ongoing criminal activity & destruction of personal property for a period of time this long.  And we cannot allow ourselves to ignore ongoing crime while we investigate one crime, and that is what Holder has done.  Ignoring a community out of control..

 as citizens we have to hold the media accountable for the ongoing circus of criminal activity they have staged and promoted, and we will-- thanks to social technology,,,,,in time.  We will soon find a way to pass on the losses felt by newspapers to major networks.  If it weren't for the the windfall of political advertising profits every 4th year(another taxpayer scam), Major news networks would be in trouble now.  Technology is redefining the power bases in the US.

Maybe the leadership at the State Level in Missouri will take the blame.

I just think it was a much easier issue to show some unifying leadership on than Iran will be.

If you want legislation worth signing, a little unifying leadership from somewhere might help.

[hobbyfarm2145365]

forgot one.... lets cut farmer's share of crop ins to 10%  improve support prices,  50% subsidy for grain dryers (off set their price increases)   increase conservation payments just few to help those (( middle class farmers))      just a few to get ag econemy booming