Is it sinking in?

[Palouser]

So, cheap fuel means families will have money to spend on other goods? Like I said, things have changed and the middleclass isn't going to cooperate w/ the financial sector and the new economics where the middle class gets used and abused by the system. So much for trickling down.

"Consumers have been filling their pockets with the money they're saving while filling up at the gas pump, Moody's economist Mark Zandi said Tuesday. As a result, expected improvements in sales data specifically and economic growth in general have fallen short of the expectations that came along with the sharp plunge in energy prices.

Consumer spending declined 0.2 percent in January after falling 0.3 percent in December at the same time gas was holding below $2 a gallon in many areas. While that was happening, retailers were enduring a miserable holiday shopping season followed by a 0.8 percent decline in January sales."

Stare down stalemate. Game over.

[r3020]

The savings got ate up by Obama care and higher electric bills. Hope and change in action.

[BA Deere]

There are alot of Boomers getting set to retire and don`t have near enough saved for that stage in their life, i don`t blame them a bit for putting aside any gas savings for that. Younger people are swimming in college loan debt and any extra money goes to feed that monster. 

The average person probably drives 12,000 mi/yr maybe burns 500 gallon with gas a buck cheaper...that`s just a couple bucks a day extra, I hear Starbucks is doin` good what is they get for them "Tall"  frapra-lapra-lattrys? about 4 - 5 bucks?  and they gotta have one every day.

There a global wage re-balancing under way and with 3 billion of the world`s population getting by with less than $2 a day, they either have a long way to go up or we have a long way to go down.

[Palouser]

That is worth a look. The question is how an economy is organized. And the policies that tend to support or not support an economy.

For instance, labor in China or India compared to labor here is a totally different proposition. Generally we don't compete in the same kind of workplace. A ditch in India for new NG service may be dug with three men sharing one pick - including going across an asphalt street (I've seen it). Here, we'll have a backhoe, boring machines, and highly trained technicians involved that can do so many service lines in a given period of time that can expand services very quickly. In other words, we don't compete directly with low wages in another country, We compete on the basis of productivity.

Anotgher

way of looking at it is Germany's success in productivity and high tech, They've consistently been the third biggest exporter in the world, with highly trained workers that are rarely laid off. During slow times they are trained to ever higher levels on cutting edge technology and workplace tools. The #1 car sales in China is VW/Audi.

[Red Steele]

The American baby boomers have to be the most selfish group of people in the history of the world. Hard to find any of them that try to epitomize the American Dream..ie, .work your butt off and save so that the next generation has it better than you had it. I already see some of the younger boomers retiring at the same time that their hard working parents slow down cause they just don't want to work that hard. What do you say about a generation where you can see the 80 year patriarch still working while his 60 year old sons are retired on pensions? And the sad thing is that many of those 75-80 year olds are in better shape than the 55-60 year old sons.

Istead, you see a group of people that supported a government that not only spent what it took in, but also spent another 20 Trillion, and has unfunded future liabilities of many times that. THey take off in Winnebagos, go to the sunbelt for their second or third home,  and have a "spend it now" mentalitiy. Shiftys rather than Thriftys.

And those of that will be working for the next 20 years, will bear some of the brunt of what will come, but the real victums are those in their 20's now that will be asked to try to fund both their retirements and pay for the generations before them. Hard to visulize a scenario where it all plays out well.

$2 a day in fuel savings is laughable, given everything else that is going on.

[WCMO]

That's true on the retirement thing in many cases, yet there's also quite a few examples of the opposite in the past -- farmers who retired earlier to make room for early or pre-baby-boomer son on the farm, who is now in his 80's and still farming because technology allows it, and custom operators are available.

[Palouser]

Ahhh. So the solution to our ecionomy is to work when you're 80 (an age few people reached) not too many years ago. And retiring is possible when you're 60 and lazy? How does that work?

And that's the reason our economy stinks?

I must live in a better neighborhood than you. Reminds me of the story about the guy looking looking for a new place to live and a asking a resident of another area whether he liked the neighbors there because he was looking to relocate. The resident asked him what he thought of his neighbors in his old neighborhood. The reply was that they were lazy, unfriendly and no gooder fools for the most part. The resident of the 'new'  neighborhood said, 'Well, you'll probably find the people here are about the same'.

So much for exceptionalism.

[OKdon]

And--you don't think those that are retired today didn't work and save for their own rtetirement and paid for the elderly before them. The taxes we paid to support our parents and grand parents were the dues we paid for our benefits that we receive today. Too bad the whiney assed creeps (some of them our children and grand children) simply don't want to pay their dues!

[Palouser]

If consumer spending went up .5% due to fuel savings, plus a bit for other factors, then economists and politicians would have smiles on their faces (except those who have a weird idea that if spending goes down it's Obama's fault). Improvement in consumer spending right now is a VERY low bar to accomplish - and yet it's NOT HAPPENING!

And it won't for the most part. The middle class is not risking it's neck in an economy that they don't have a big stake in anymore. Everything that can be done without Congress has been done. Congress, specifically the House, won't do what was acceptable before to help the economy. The original idea of some was that if nothing is done the economy will magically bounce back even faster. Nothing is being done for the middle class and the economy is basically flat.

[BA Deere]

Pal, what are a few things that congress could do to "help the middle class"?   I would like to see a tax cut, but Democrats don`t want that, I would like to see some stability but Democrats don`t want that. 

Democrats have recently raised the cost of my family`s health insurance...yeah thanks alot Democrats.  This global warming hoax raises the cost of businesses so they can`t hire new employees.  This immigration deal, yeah those "back taxes" that illegals were supposedly going to have to pay ends up a $35,000 in back EARNED INCOME CREDIT for each one in some cases.

...I don`t get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDceLiPLHWQ&t=44