Subsidies, subsidies, you want to argue subsidies?

[sw363535]

Rick So full of nonsense logic.  Your calling a depreciation expense a subsidy.  The typical liberal slight of hand — a ficticous figure based on theory.  It represents 0$ of federal spending and 0$ of revenue to oil companies. 

Unless you think politicians own the asset depreciated.  Liberal nonsense

[sw363535]

All you have to do is read threads like this one to know how far out in fantasyland the American democratic party has wondered

we used to say “house of cards”.  But this is a house of political power plays with fake fear factors propping up every hoax.

covid is just the current sky hook we hang our destroy America hat on.  Climate change, carbon emissions,  pollution, systemic racism, etc etc

It’s laughable this stuff gets said with a straight face   But it doesn’t  —they hide behind the bitterness of a 16 year old with a self proclaimed doctorate In nothing  or the energy engineering expertise of a bar maid  —- they bully, throw bricks, burn the forest and each other’s homes, —— mostly never admit their lies   Polar bears near extinction?  Seas will rise 20 ft by 2000?   Environmental destruction by species protection.  

Just drive in Iowa and pencil out what it takes to build and erect a wind generator.  It’s sheer nonsense  the economics are unaffordable and impossible without oil and gas   

iMO  the only way we achieve democratic platform goals is a total collapse of the current economy with the poverty that comes with it   

Leaders like ours in congress will own electric cars and solve our energy problems by making sure the masses have sidewalks to everywhere they can get a permit to go —— and will have free health care including covid tests monthly and one mask per family  

[elcheapo]

I am not going to get into a political discusion on alternative

Or green enery, but I am in favor

Of it.

I remember the 70's, where america was held hostage by

The middle east...fuel was high..if

Available...remember interstate

Speed limit was reduced to 55.

We didnt have an energy, simular

To now.

Enery indepence is critical today.

Solar is good...prices less than $1

Watt. Granted it is not a cure all.

You want to save money and enery..

Get a ground based geothermal

System...you can get DIY kits....its

 not brain surgery...i have a friend

Whos heating/cooling bill is  close to $65 a month...system about

$7000.

Wind energy again good....income

Helped many farmers and communities

Just where would corn be if not

For ethanol

Bio diesel...does have problems

In winter.

Energy 

[rickgthf]

Depreciation is figured on the cost basis of an investment.  Cost basis doesn't come in anywhere when figuring oil depletion allowance.   The oil depletion allowance is categorized under the heading of tax expenditures along with other subsidies.

  Besides, the "depreciation" of oil well investments is already fully accounted for under the "research deduction", that is to say, all oil well development expenses are allowed to be deducted in the first year.  There is no "depreciation" of an oil well, it's a 100% deductible in the first year.a

The oil depletion allowance is over and above any "deductions" or "depreciations " already taken.

[BA Deere]

I know a little bit about farming, I know very little about oil production.  It seems to me the subsidies in farming  (crop insurance and payments) provide a government "put option" that keeps ever acre in production and results in the cheap food.  No politician wants to be blamed for people not affording food.

Now with the oil tax credits, gasoline is $1.80, a 16oz bottle of drinking water is $2, fuel is cheap.   A oil company has to drill a lot of wells ($$$$) to get a profitable one.  And when they get a profitable one there`s the risk OPEC floods the market taking $50 oil down to $20.  Then you can`t drill because of polar bears and kangaroo rats and spotted owls. 

What has made America great is food security has all but taken off the top of issues list.  Americans can get in their car, fill with $1.80 gas drive 50 miles and enjoy a reasonably priced meal at Applebees, with money left over to visit the mall or go Amazon to stimulate the economy.

Farm subsidies and oil tax credits pay much bigger returns to the US economy than what they cost.   If farm products didn`t have a floor that would not go below in a worst case scenario, fringe areas wouldn`t get planted (if we want to have that discussion, we can) .  With oil and no exploration tax credits, oil companies just wouldn`t risk drilling dry holes and Americans would pay at the pump.

As bad as "fossil fuels" are, the reasonable price of them are the necessary evil to get us to the projected utopia in the future.  We need to stay warm, eat and pay income taxes during the next  50 years to get to the utopia. 

[WCMO]

Bigger picture --

- I also have no problem with "green energy" as a supplemental component of our total current US energy resources.  However, the overall net economic costs to go "100% green" are astronomical and, especially in the shorter term, could severely and negatively impact our national and personal economic growth, debt, economic security, transportation, etc.  Much depends on the time frame being put forth -- 2025 is less than 5 years from now, 2050 is less than 30 years from now.  We must look at workable long-term approaches that can be implemented gradually, instead of quick fixes that could jeopardize actual success or survival.   A natural progression of adaptations that follow sound science and innovation, supported by research and reasonable incentives, and providing both social and economic feasibility, while phasing out "inappropriate" incentives over time, would be a more sound and secure economic approach.

- In the '70s, US oil production was not the same as today, and US power in oil supply and prices was much more limited.

    -- The OPEC oil embargo was a decision to stop exporting oil to the United States. On October 19, 1973, the 12 OPEC members agreed to the embargo. Over the next six months, oil prices quadrupled. Prices remained at higher levels even after the embargo ended in March 1974.

    -- In total energy consumption, the US was between 86% and 91% self-sufficient in 2016. In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products. ... In November 2019, the United States became a net exporter of all oil products, including both refined petroleum products and crude oil.

    -- China is the world's largest importer of crude oil and gas, imported 440 million metric tons of crude oil in 2018, a year-on-year increase of 11 percent, with its foreign oil dependency ratio reaching 69.8 percent.

- There isn't enough information to actually determine the economic feasibility of your friend's ground-based heating/cooling system.  If we assume his monthly bills are one-half of what they would be otherwise, then he is saving $65/month.  If we look at the present value of a $65/month annuity at a nominal rate of return represented by the potential investment gain on such a limited amount of monthly investment, then it's quite possible that the PVa ($ savings) is actually lower than the initial $7000 outlay.  So, the "savings" could very well be due to a more efficient new system, projected image, and reduced monthly energy use and cost, as opposed to overall system components, cost, and overall economic savings.

[elcheapo]

These were average heating and

Cooling cost on larger 3 bedroom

Homes.  They tell me about $65

a month, when most others are

Paying $300 a month.

Electric autos can work...but not

everywhere.  In a metro area and

a few miles, yes....going across state...would need to stop.

I have seen plans for electric semi

Trucks...used in europe on fixed

Routes...here, depends on route 

In agriculture...biodisel....latest

A certain alge is raised that will

Produce an oil...so maybe the time

From oil based crops gone ?

Biodisel does have problems in

Cold weather.

The extension service has had

Plans for a solar grain dryer for

Years...but there is a scale problem

With that today.

I believe it wise to use alternative

Energy in situations where it will

Work.  Will it replace fosil fuels..

Not totally yet....but working

On it.

As far as exporting oil...I say no.

There is only so much oil, we are

Not making new.  One of the war

College test in planing would be

A conflict over oil.

So much of modern america is

About status...eago....and corp

America is happy to feed it 

Look at all the big vehicles we

Have....in particular the large

SUV's and all the big 4x4    4 door

Pickups you see...in town !!

Not only are they gas hogs...the

Cost is huge....the cost of an suv

Can buy a house !!!

Our life style is way too high...

We could live on less....but not

Saying, the gov take the difference !

A success story for solar power is

Remote livestock wells.  It would

Cost me close to $7000 a mile

For rea to run a line to my wells

And it would be "several miles"

To get there, plus $45 a month

To just have it there, with no

Usage.

My solar units run $2000 to $3500

Depending on how deep.

Same story for remote monitoring

Systems and communications.

We can use more green energy..

Part of the story is it is not available...example biodisel

Is hard to get here.

But total switch over in a year or

So....it could be done...biodisel..

Ethol...but problems....but over

Time, I believe it wise.

Even our local rea is seeing things

Different...the say the future is

Solar power and fuel cells...and

Said tremendious cost savings...

Would no longer need all the

Elec lines ..which is a huge expense.. but problems with

Big power users...we will still need

For those