My oh my
Is everybody numb from what happened last night?
The end of farming as we know it was announced last night.
NO MORE PETROLEUM BASED FARMING.
The end of oil usage in the USA within five years was announced last night.
Whatya gonna pull that 24 row planter with? A tesla?
The greenies all gonna show up to pick corn by hand (just in theory if the Tesla gets the planting done)
It took a good man to get 100bu picked by hand in the good ol days. I'll give the greenies the benefit of the doubt and think they might get 25bu the first day, nothing the next week as they will be healing blisters.
Hey Rick how you gonna move that corn to market? No trucks. Oh yea how they gonna get food into the cities? On ox cart? Bicycle? Basket perched on the head of a greenie?
No more barges on the river systems. They burn diesel.
Anybody with two brain cells than can function at the same time should be very worried.
Solar and wind power are the only two things they want. -20° in January COLD windless night. No Sun, no wind, can't have propane or natural gas. 14 hrs of darkness, no electricity, next day cloudy and no wind. How warm will your house be?
All the confinement livestock buildings will have to go vacant, no way to grow enough feed to keep them in operation.
John Deere will cease to exist in this country along with about every heavy equipment co. The trickle down of job loss will be a total flood.
Absolutely no way to defend that stupidity. A vote for that is like volunteering to stand in front of a firing squad.
Your balance sheet will be slashed as that combine and diesel fuel burning tractor is worth a few pennies on the dollar and that only to an exporter to a third world farmer.
It'll be worse than what another Joe did to his country last century. (Joe Stalin for those of you with just a partial brain cell still functional) remember he(Biden) is the one who likes comparisons to last century losers.
What's left of the airline industry will be gone.
Maybe Mike can research and start writing on how to be a successful subsistence farmer?
Re: My oh my
Hobby - you forgot to mention all the things we do with petroleum that we DON'T burn! Look around the kitchen - how many things have plastic or rubber in them? Damn near everything! We only burn roughly half the petroleum we extract - the rest is made into lots of valuable and indispensable materials.
I am actually in favor of renewable energy, if done smartly. I do disagree with Trump on wind - it is a more concentrated form of solar energy, and you can collect more per acre with a wind tower than a solar field. But he's right that, even though they consume no fuel to make electricity, a lot of steel and copper are required for their construction, and those mining machines run on diesel and the steel to make them is forged with metallurgical coal.
Wind and solar presently account for about 10% of US electricity generation. Hydro is about 30% I believe, leaving 60% that is still coal, gas, or nuclear. That means we need FIVE TIMES more wind and solar than we have now just to replace existing non-renewable electricity consumption. Then you have to figure how much more you need to run all the cars, trucks, tractors and trains. And you're right - there will NEVER be an electric powered commercial aircraft.
Plus, what is it that F-22's and M1A1's run on again? I forget...
Re: Only burn half of it, oh please, not even close.
Look at the table below from the Eia, 45% (includes ethanol by the way) is gasoline for light vehicles, 20% for diesel and heating oil, 15% for hydrocarbon gases (aka propane), & 8% for jet fuel that's 88% used for major fuels. Petrochemical feedstocks are only 1.5%, everything else is almost trivial.
The point is, light vehicles will be electric, boom 50% of carbon cost gone. And guess what, because electric motors are 95% efficient instead of only 25% for IC engines you only need 25% of the energy previously used. And guess what, my 45'x14' grid-tied solar panel supplies all the annual energy need for our electric car, house and shop lights, and my dryers & bin fans, what I don't use gets sold to the neighbors or shipped back to me when I need it.
Next, the 20% for diesel and fuel heating, yeah that's a problem but guess what? All the new heating systems here are heat pumps, either air to air or groundwater to air with either electric or propane backup, two neighbors putting them in now. What happens to the propane use when you only using it at -10 or below?
Who cares about the 1.5% petrochemical feedstocks, who cares about the 1/2 % lubrication oils, besides what happens to motor oil consumption when the IC goes away?
As for fuel for farming, the bulk of my heavy diesel needs are easily met with my own biodiesel.
And nothing I've mentioned is new technology, all of it available today
And I haven't even mentioned carbon sequestration. Go to carbon sequestration and the whole problem vanishes.
The problem with you fellows is that you lack imagination.
Re: My oh my
He’s right about one thing — it takes a very active imagination.
Think how much jetson imagination it’s gonna take to consider the economics of all those “simple” answers.
Just to get this far on electric travel it has taken how much federal subsidy???
And so far it takes a billionaire to buy one and keep it running Without the tech industry helping congress fund the mess, the economics sink and travel is limited to the jet air travel that makes up most of the travel for electric car ownership.
hobby has it nailed until we solve lots of problems being fueled by hocus pocus nonsense Point is green energy has never made economic or scientific sense and needs to mislead and lie about gas and oil to generate support through fear. Any promotion that needs a doomsday fear to justify its support is probably a bad idea.
Re: Subsidies, subsidies, you want to argue subsidies?
I took the liberty of calculating just the oil depletion allowance subsidy alone based on the first purchase price of oil (not the gas) and annual domestic oil production (don't even ask me how to calculate the "research tax subsidy" the petroleum industry gets each year, that's worth billions more). Last year, the domestic Oil industry receive a $37 billion direct subsidy on just the oil alone. In contrast, total US subsidies for solar, tax subsidies, and direct subsidies in 2016 were $1.8 billion and declined in the past three years.
Since 1927, when the oil depletion allowance was first passed, the oil depletion allowance subsidy has amounted to $687 trillion dollars in non-inflation corrected dollars. Inflation-corrected, it's $1,544 trillion dollars in 2019 dollars. To put that into perspective, the entire private wealth of the US is only approx. $117 trillion.
From my own experience, gasoline as a passenger vehicle fuel is at least 6 times more expensive than electricity, solar or not.
I think it's high time for oil to stand on it's own two feet and compete with solar electric on an equal footing.
Re: Subsidies, subsidies, you want to argue subsidies?
How do the electric vehicles hold up in below 0 climate? You know "global warming" won`t bailout the electric car Where does that precious "RFS" fit into a brave new electric world?
I think 50 yrs from now the bugs will be worked out and electric semis will be running in North Dakota in January...but let`s not prematurely put the government thumb on the scale.
Re: You missed the whole point, didn't you? But of course you would.
Oh, please, not even a million people live in ND (760,000), they can keep their gas-guzzling cars if they want. Besides, by the time coronavirus gets done with them there won't even be that many.
Re: My oh my
Americans with a little knowledge of history and economics are begging and pleading for a Trump victory. Even if you don't like Trump you would have to be a fool to think more socialism and a "green new deal" would be good for America. If you actually believe that only Americans earning $400,000 or more a year would see higher costs of living under Biden you need to think a little deeper. Do you really think Walmart and others will except lower returns because they pay more in taxes? No, they will just pass it on to the consumer. America is truly in a fight for it's very ideals in this election. Freedom and capitalism vs socialism.