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Veteran Advisor

Canadian Cornbelt and land prices

Hey Farmerguy, I am really thinking about selling off some of my Minnesota farmland holdings and looking for a country with a stable currency to reinvest in. Can you historically grow  good corn in Ontario? What are local land prices like? Yields? I am sure you do not want a rush of Americans coming across the border and understand if you are reluctant to divulge.

 

Thanks in Advance.

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Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

South west ontario: iit gets as crazy as Iowa or worse. Chickens/ tomatoes Seem to do that. Potato ground is not cheap either. It's 200 bpa land in the southwest anyways. Land prices have always been higher than USA due to dairy and bird quota systems.

Around me, guys pay 4000-5000 for land. About 140-150 bpa corn land. We are better suited for specialty beans (Canada is #1 or 2 in this market), soybeans (40-44bpA), winter wheat (83 bpa). Soybean basis is much higher than USA, corn much lower: is it because the boats are in the great lakes? Maybe. Soy acres always outweigh corn acres: just way more money: usually.

Some areas will have cheaper land: new liskeard has been of interest to many. We aren't well suited to corn on corn either. This just isn't Iowa. Wheat/ clover cover bumps it up.

We don't really have a huge safety net like the USA dOes. All we have is crop insurance. The other programs arent like american ones. The only safety is quota. Only Quebec has socialized farming on every level. You get paid to grow anything and it's not simply just grocery money. It's real money. This is due to the fact that the French kept their customs and laws when they confederated. It's a whole different country within a country over there. They have different values.
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Veteran Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

Interesting. What are the seasons like? When do you plant....how many day corn maturity do you plant...when does the fall freeze come? What are winters like?

 

It seems strange to think of Canada growing 200 bpa corn.

 

The socialism that we have here in the USA is something I would gladly move away from.

 

What are tax policies like in Canada....do they discourage marriage like here in the USA, of are they neutral or supporting to traditional nuclear families?

 

I do appreciate the information.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

Red,

 

What socialist things are you referring to and are affecting you??

 

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Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

Red, we generally don't get to plant in march. Unless its frost seeded spring wheat. 2012-- it was possible to get the tractor in the field in march.

The 200 bpa stuff is mostly southwest, as it's on almost the same geography as the corn belt.

I usually don't get started planting until late April/early may because the ground is too wet, even w tile. In my area we switch away from corn may 15: so 2 weeks to plant corn. Beans are well adapted to plant up to June 15 in this area however.

The southwest guys get on the ground a few weeks earlier and can plant longer.

I mostly grow 88-93 day stuff. Dekalb has some really good genetics that compete well w longer season hybrids. 43-10 comes to mind.

Frost happens around October for me. Winter has been more mild as of late but can be cold and snowy. I've never seen a dry spell last: how can it not snow???

As I understand it, we can grow corn out here because of favorable night time grain fill temps (I.e. cool).

The other thing to watch out for is drying corn. Where I am I could start at 30 and it may be there for a while. Usually I'm going at 25 and trying to finish at 20: combining low moisture corn causes significant yield losses anywhere. My brother in law in a slightly hotter area usually does things at 18. It's easier to combine dry Soys than corn here: not 4-5% moisture soys like some guys do in drought areas of the states.

If its late corn, it's high moisture.

Winter is a little more helpful w compaction out here than other areas south. More freezing/ thawing.

Taxes shouldn't be a problem for famillies. The only thing that would shock you is the 13% tax on anything no business/essential. Any of that tax (hst) is recoverable for business. It's not on food, but on things like clOthes.
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Senior Contributor

Re: One weather event away.......

Just to add to 89's comments.

HST 13% tax on almost everything.

We get to collect it too except on ag produce and then get to file for a rebate on the excess we paid on business since we can not collect on most of our sales.

Big cash flow impact.

 

We do pay it on most personal items.

 

BUT we do not have any health insurance payments to make and everyone has health care even those with no income.

 

Never real safe from frost after about Sept 20 for me although we seldom get one until Oct but you have to plan for the years that it comes by Sept 20th.

Do not plant anything really frost suseptible, like edible beans, until June 1st unless you like to replant some years.

 

Quite a difference in different areas of Ontario.

If you are close to the lakes you get quite a warmng influence.

Centre of South western Ontario around Mount Forest as an example is quite a bit shorter season and then as you go north it is even shorter.

 

As for land prices there have been sales last fall at $24,000 an acre. Not all but some areas.

DAiry guys especially are hungry for land.

 

One other thing you should know about farming in Ontario is if you are like many farmers here you will have to convert a lot.

We have the metric system but few farmers use it so they buy their fertilizer in tonnes and then convert it to spread it on their acres in pounds.

They deliver their crops in tonnes and then convert it to pounds and then divide it into 56 or 60 or 48 lb units and sell it by those units. 

 

A few of us do not convert and we just farm hectares, spreading tonnes per hectare and selling by the tonne with yield figured in t/ha.

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Veteran Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

Canuck, that is amazing that people are paying $24000 per acre in Canada for land. Is that using the Canadian dollar, or did you convert to US dollars?

 

I thought the canada dollar was more secure, and that people would not be worried as much about land for an inflation hedge.

 

Am I missing something?

 

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Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

That's Canadian: tomato farms/ edibles/ chickens/ turkey/ dairy.

I think what you don't get is that some crops are guaranteed an enormous profit like dairy and chickens.

I mean, I'm just as subject to the market as you are Steele. Or worse.

Beef guys are the least protected and by far the most likely to lose money/ work part time.
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Advisor

Re: One weather event away.......

Don't forget: dairy guys need land to dump manure on legally. So you pay whatever you can
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Senior Contributor

Re: One weather event away.......

Yes and I am not spoofing you.

The $24,000 I know of because a neighbour of that parcel told me about it.

It was in Oxford county and a dairy farm bought it right beside their home farm and that would be the extra value in that parcel.

 

I can tell you of a parcel near me and behind one of our farms that sold for $1.85 million last fall. One of the poorest farms around here, old farm house that has been maintained but that is all. 1960ies vintage pole shed small and a 10 year old pig barn value $200,000.

Farm needed tile 50 years ago. About 90-92 acres workable.

Seller got to stay in house rent free for 3 years and no hydro bill since metre has barn on it too.

Sold by tender and dairy farmer bought it. Had tile machine in by mid December less than 30 days after tenders were opened.

 

The high prices usually have some little extra but unless I wanted to sell I would hesitate to put a price on any of our land less than $20,000 and now I think about it I would not even go that low because too many dairy and chicken guys are still looking for land. 1 of our properties sits between 2 of a dairy farmer and directly beside the home property with barns and feed storage. Don't want to find out what a tender call might elicit on that one. Might think I owned a big chunk of Ottawa after the sale.

 

Check out this farm in Dover, way down near Windsor and Detroit.

http://farmontario.com/farms-for-sale.asp?listing_id=%7B7F548B51-A0AB-4EF7-964B-19FE827C1190%7D  $25,000/acre and it has an 'extra' too with wind turbine on it.

 

Check these listings for a range of prices and different farms across different regions.

http://farmontario.com/farms-for-sale.asp?sort_by=price&order_sequence=order_sequence_descending

 

If you get interested in one of those let me know and I can introduce you to Ron.

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