cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
bullrider685114
Veteran Contributor

Re: Clarifications

0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Clarifications

consumption #s are irrelevant unless coupled to supply through a financial marketplace.  consumption may go up, accepting Mizzou's assumptions, will go up.  But if the price value of supply are not factored in, consumption does not help us market anything.
Consumption on its own just doesnt have much to do with price.
0 Kudos
Mizzou_Tiger
Senior Advisor

Re: Clarifications

So is a pickup truck worth 40 or 50k.........because 40 years ago they worth worth 3, 4, and 5k.........nearly a 10 plus fold jump yet grains prior to 2008 were not worth anymore now as they were 40 years ago....... Thus one could argue supply and demand has actually kept grains deflated, severely, and worked against price value (inflation/currency wars) remarkably well........thus either way you look at it supply and demand has moved the price of grains.......either by allowing inflation to over take it's fundamentals or the fundamentals have moved the price themselves....... Now your argument that inflationary forces (currency wars/whatever) could subside thus defaulting grain prices also has issues.......if that were true then that 50k truck should deflate by an equal proportion.........doubt that happens.......so worst case scenario based on your argument is grains deflate in tandem.......which means corn will likely never see 4 again......unless supply and demand dictate it......... Again, do not confuse price with s and d.....
0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

I'm not feeding the world. I'm just a marketer. Pricing in relation to expenses has much more to do with my existence. I find supply in a group of things to watch. But demand seems dislocated.
0 Kudos
Palouser
Senior Advisor

Re: Clarifications

Couple of considerations. In the real world consumption is always in relation to supply. If there is never a real need to worry about supply, like air, then consumption reveals little about cost. Food has never been in that catagory historically (the U.S., in it's very large and productive resources and recent development has probably been the least affected and has been a consistent exporter). Globally it's probably not a stretch to say almost every generation has been victim of food shortages, sometimes from war, sometimes by disease (potato famine) and the all too common droughts and floods.

 

For food there is always a market. IMO many seem to think futures are that market. I think it's the physical buying selling and production. The market is there and always has been and always will be. Physical trumps futures. If futures are out of whack I will guarantee you they will get realigned and reset periodically. The wheat shortage of 2007 was case in point. You could see it coming and it came. Futures were blindsided and failed to geive the market adequate time to ramp up production in time for it to matter. Then it went ballistic. The recent Russian crop failure was similar. It took the market a long time to react to the obvious. We were in a crappy economy then, but prices sailed and we exported a pile of wheat.

 

Through all the negativity of late the prices have been quite good. The market is sensitized to changes. If SA has a poor crop it will shake food commodity markets. Outside economics will have very little influence. Demand will be about the same ofr more in the end even if prices go sky high. We've proved this a number of times recently. It's as close to a constant in marketing as we have.

 

But I still see constant references to demand following economic conditions. That's not the way it happens. Plot global S/U with prices and there will be a rough correlation. Plot global consumption/demand against prices and see what you get.

0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

Mizzou,
Exports are only important in their relation to expectation. Today they were below or equal to my expectation, in regard to news and rising market. I expect exports to pick up if these continue. If world #s lower , average or below exports become a drag on price.

Just my view. A different angle.
0 Kudos
Mizzou_Tiger
Senior Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

So right now exports are running ahead of USDA for corn and wheat.........which means things get even more bullish.......which means if they are not up to your expectations now then you should be super bullish????????? Yet you are bearish??????
0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

today--yes,

but I expect them to turn bullish as you.  But they will have to exceed usda's expectations(because that is what most accept) to be bullish to price(the market)

0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

not on the average long term but on a single report.  The market will not respond to expectations.  The market responds to sales that are not expected. Otherwise we have a flat market in a short year, and that would be disappointing.

0 Kudos
sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: OptionEye.....Dec. 30th

I thought it was a wonderful day, I was hoping there was more than SA heat rumors driving the ship.  Holding the rise without any suprises in exports was great.  If there is actually some trimming in foreign crop we will see some "unexpected" export sales in response which drives the market into an actual bull direction.

am I way off.

 

0 Kudos