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jec22
Veteran Advisor

Re: Slick willie says......

Gored, I must be missing something in your writings.  We should keep the grain to ourselves because it is so valuable?  Do you think the same logic should be applied to the countries producing oil, they should not export it?

 

The reasons there hasn't been advancement in engines and fuel economy: 1. We keep applying California EPA requirements on engines(now coming to farm equipment).  2.  The real powers that be, make sure it doesn't happen--the oil powers are so much bigger than any of us understand.

 

Some Americans won't fit in the Zero car.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1033303_zero-pollution-motors-plans-2011-u-s-launch-for-106mpg-ai...

 

Keep posting Gored.    When the markets are going up your postings increase. 

 

On a side note, is harvest resuming back in Brazil?  Haven't heard anything about it, so maybe that issue has been resolved.

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GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Slick willie says......

You claimed that grains are one of the U.S.'s most valuable resource even though it makes up very little of the GDP.  My response was if it is so valuable to us as a nation then maybe we shouldn't export any of it.  I really could care less what oil producing countries do with their oil, but there isn't a one of them that can consume the amount of oil in a year that they pump.  I'm rather certain they can't eat it either.  If the rest of the World wasn't hooked on oil, the Middle East wouldn't have any relevancy at all. 

 

While I don't really agree with the California EPA requirements on engines, do you really think they're hindering us anymore than 20%?  Even if they are hindering us 20%, this means a car getting 30 now would still only get 36.  I'm sorry, but this just won't cut it.  Heck, even if they're hindering us at 50% it's just not enough.  Your second point is the reason we don't have better technology.  Big oil has bought the patents to any technology that would have had any significance at all.  It just goes to show you how we've evolved.  When the polio vaccine was invented, it was never patented so that everyone could get it.  Inventors now just sell out to the highest bidder.  This is why other countries have long surpassed the U.S. in terms of being on the cutting edge with regards to energy.   

 

My postings follow the weather a lot more than the direction of the markets.   

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unlgrad
Senior Contributor

Re: Slick willie says......

SO, if we use 6 times the electricity to power that car over a Volt, then all our electricity must be generated by dams and not by coal or nuclear power.  We still have a lot of coal, but who would shovel the coal into the engine as we ride to our destination.  Wait, I have got it, if we have to shovel the coal, a NEW weight loss program and make the obese kids do the shoveling like we had to shovel grain, clean pens, feed hay during our impresionable years growing up.

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booked
Veteran Contributor

Re: Slick willie says......

Goredhusker

 

You wrote this quote

 

"France has the technology for cars running on compressed air.  As long as one doesn't drive over 35 mph, there is absolutely zero fossil fuel used."

 

You don't actually believe that do you?????????????????????

 

No fossil fuel used ???????????????

 

How did that air get compressed in the first place????????????

 

You just lost some creditabilty in my eyes.

 

I suppose if the compressor was run off a wind generator or by solar cells maybe but. My guess is the compressor will be plugged into thew electric grid which in this country runs on fossil fuel. Now in  France there is a lot of nuclear power so maybe over there they MIGHT be able to say that if that part of there grid is run only by the nuclear plant.

 

Or so it seems to me!

 

 

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John_Walter
Advisor

Dinner conversation--not

In this debate, like many on the topic of ethanol,  I seem to wind up agreeing with the last guy that talked.

 

And, I've learned that ethanol often is not a good subject for dinner conversation.  Wrote about it yesterday after reading Clinton's speech and Corn Growers response: Oil and ethanol don't mix.

 

John

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Blacksandfarmer
Veteran Advisor

Re: Slick Willie says......

jec you forgot to mention along with military dollars spent in the Arab regions lets not forget all of the US flag draped coffins still coming home from there every day and these people here in the US whine and cry about trying to be energy independent. Some of these livestock guys that go on and on about wanting to eliminate ethanol ought to be ashamed of themselves, or better yet spend a week over seas and get shot at with oil funded bullets and see what they think of things then. The livestock groups need to realize when there prices for feed goes up so does our fertilizer expenses! Rabid ethanol haters need to stop thinking of themselves and look around their own communities to see jobs ethanol creates and less money given to terrorist that have killed friends of mine! I don't like to see guys like JR that can't make money in the dairy industry suffer, but at the same time there are 5,000 head dairies being built everyday..... For what!!! Slick Willie helped bring us into problems, he needs to keep his mouth shut when it comes to an industry he knows nothing about!

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sonoma72
Veteran Contributor

Re: Slick Willie says......

blacksand,

 

Unfortunately the value of lives lost in the mideast doesnt really enter the argument.  Why, because if it did then you would have to put a dollar value on a dead body, and nobody wants to do that, or ask, "now why did that person give their life again?"   I lost track of the amount spent over there since 2001, but I believe it is over $4 trillion.  whether it is 1 or 5 trillion, that money would have gone a long way to an nice energy policy.   Does anyone believe we would be over there if oil wasn't involved, oil is how the Bin laden's made their money, construction financed with oil money.  No oil money, no osama bin laden.   One might go as far to argue that without oil, the terrorist problem would be slight to non existent, since we would have no business to be meddling over there.  Ethanol may not be a solution, but it can be part of a solution, and until I see some "concrete" alternatives on the table I won't be changing my mind, and the table would be "reality" not some fantasy in a university lecture hall.   Many are against it, but what is their solution, to just sit here and do nothing?  What else is coming down the pipeline?   Where are the new cars?  Where are the new standards for home insulation?  Where are the new nuclear power plants?  Where are the new "OIL" refineries?   Hell, where are the jobs?  Oh I get it, we are going to outsource all of the above, to drive down the bottomline, so that the stockholders are happy.  Lets kick the can down the road another 20 years, tie it up and committee and borrow money like its 1929. 

It is evident, from reading these ethanol threads, that lines are being drawn in the sand among the ag groups or they will be soon, just like political parties.   Getting to the point where it is even impossible to have decent conversations on the matter.  heck some farmers might end up joining a green party. 

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GoredHusker
Senior Contributor

Re: Slick Willie says......

Addressing more than one at a time, but in terms of answering your own question you already did that Booked.  Whether we like to admit it or not, coal is also on a limited supply.  We're going to have to adopt different technology to produce electricity here in the U.S.  With newer technology in nuclear power, I read a few years back where we could make enough electricity for 50+ years that would create nuclear waste that would fill less than my house.  It's not just automobiles that need a makeover.  We need to makeover our entire energy complex.

 

From the data I collected, it seems we use roughly 400 million gallons a day here in the U.S. of gasoline.  Using the 2.8 gallons per bushel, we'd use roughly 143 million bushels worth or corn daily for just gasoline independence.  At this rate, a 13 billion bushel corn crop would be used up in just 91 days.  Bio diesel looks significantly worse.     

 

Unfortunately, there are lives lost in the Arab regions.  However, how does this compare to Vietnam?  Vietnam was not fought over oil.  The mandate for biofuels in 2022 is 36 billion gallons.  This will still be a far cry from being energy independent.  Without a change in direction of our energy policy, we're still basically putting a bandaid over a gushing wound.             

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cowfarmer
Senior Contributor

Re: Slick Willie says...... Blacksandfarmer

Im against ethanol, I also spent 2 years in Vietnam. You should choose words carefully. Those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan need to stop though, we can't afford them, and I've been to war it's not fun.

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Blacksandfarmer
Veteran Advisor

Re: Slick Willie says......

Gored since when did I mention Vietnam? Wars should never be compared.

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