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Honored Advisor

Re: Very concerned

clayton58,   Oil subsidies?   We can start with the United States military presence in the middle east.   Probably can end with that also.  Decades of spending to defend the oil supply certainly dwarfs any subsidy that ethanol used to receive.    Smiley Wink

Honored Advisor

Re: Very concerned

 I am now concerned with the liberal retoric.......


Am I now to assume that farmers are subsidized by the protection of international grain shipments by the US coastguard or the US Navy fleet....  Give me a break here....   the burdon of guilt is so cumbersome.


Is the gas tax at the pump also a subsidy to big oil...?


Or the quick pipeline work encouraged by the department of "we have nothing else to do" ?


The claim that Big oil is subsidized gets a pass way too often.......... should be reaching "wives tale" status by now...


Lets take a look at the revenue collected by the federal government from oil and gas production,  wonder where that fits in ?


Just thinking, when one of the kids in the back seat squeels once too often we should stop and take a look at his face, get to know him,  see if he is ours, or has his finger in the door...



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Veteran Advisor

Re: Very concerned

well i have to say i am concerned..............i guess i have a fear of the unknown.


i am concerned that we seem to be a bit "heavy" on oil.....we are trying to get back into the "industrial" era again, which did

have more employment, that, in some respects would be taking a step backwards.


i guess i do have a bit of tree hugger in me, but i feel there is a set amount of oil under our feet........we have used alot of

it, and we need to save for the future.....and the next item will be that those in china, and other places, want their turns

at autos, and etc..yet more demand.


there IS a link in lung issues and the increased use of fossil the word smog.


but, we have become more fuel efficient.


but, i think alternatives have come too far to be is down to 60 to 65 cents per kilowatt.....yes, i've looked at the

numbers of putting in a small solar power station.....the problem is you only get paid the wholesale cost, say 5 or 6 cents

a kilowatt...(((sorry, that should be watt rather than kilowatt))....numbers are not there yet.


wind is economical.......on small scale, in my opinion, such at a home......


ethonol........well there can be an argument made that "net" energy, etho is not that good.....but it has taken out alot of imports,

and has helped the ag sector.


biofuels......have not made alot of noise.....i think it might be popular in the warmer areas, but it can have problems when things

get cold.


but the work of having biofuel alge is workable....and cost effective....dare i say better than from soybeans and canola.


a few years back our electric coop was doing long range planing.....they were saying then that it would be more cost effective

to start to have some houses on an "energy cell" system.......basicly energy produced at the site, and the REA would keep things

running.....more cost effective than all the miles of line, and etc....we may be seeing that soon, if we keep seeing "access"

fees to power go higher, like 100 per month just for the meter to be there.


back to's kind of like the "perfect storm" brewing........cut down on RFS ....more oil produced, lower prices, then oil

cheaper than moonshine....and if we start to flex our muscle on trade deals......could possibly mean less exports....

another, if we get on the "right track", the american economy could be viewed as strong, so world wide, there

would a good chance that the strenth of the dollar get even stronger.....which also hurts our exports......

lastly, story on this website.....trump is listening to  the heritage foundation....they are opposed to ag supports....and they

will be fair sized this year due to the drop in prices.....




exports lower, due to trade policy/, and higher value of dollar

less use due to reduced for ethanol, thus bigger crops

little if any safety net, due to heritage foundation, so prices will fall even more.

no help on crop insurance


i do feel a healthy dose of concern  is in order........but i hope i'm wrong


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Senior Contributor

Re: Very concerned



It's your side that has snuggled up to Putin, comrad.


BTW, Trump met with  Kanye yesterday. because he has free time from not having to be briefed everyday.


Yes, Kanye West !!


Imagine President Obama doing that and you guys would have  flipped your gourd

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Senior Contributor

Re: Very concerned


  Ah yes, how soon we forget about your peacful greeting to President Obama

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Senior Contributor

Re: Very concerned

Yes, I remember it well how we marched in all the cities and looted and had counselors on every corner.  It is all coming back to me, Wait that was this year, not 4 or 8 years ago.  How time flies.

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Senior Advisor

Re: Very concerned

I   think  I  remember  an  events  called  ExXon Valdez , Deep Water Horizon ,   need  I  continue  = huge  gov. subsides  ---


If  you  want  to  examine  more  closely  observe  the   '''  lobby head count '''  in conjunction  of  fiscal  $$ spent - that  being  the  trail  of ''' follow the  $$$ '''---


Defence  rests ---

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Honored Advisor

Re: Very concerned

Lip service.................



when the mind has a bias from the start there will be no clear thinking.....and we have spent decades crying about the environmental anguish coming or going or just because we enjoy bashing something....  It is just lip service...  No form of energy will ever come without a cost and even the Exxon valdeeees showed us quickly how foolishly we declare the environment destroyed ..... all the oil spills in the world will not do the damage in a year that one volcano eruption does every year.   It is political power brokering pure and simple...  

Solar done through a corn plant is effecient.  But through a manufactured panel it is still unafordable and leaves a terrible environmental mess behind and isn't practical in 70% of the world surface.   Wind is very costly and has very limited potential.... and even at the higher recognized costs, we never count the cost of backup needed to make it work consistently and dependably.


Elcheapo,,,, stop listening to the uneducated half truth social engineers.  In the last 25 years technology more than doubled the oil reserves in the world.... Horizontal drilling alone has shown us that in fields we thought were depleted, we had only used approximately 30% of the reserve.  

The last 8 years have taught us one thing --- economically viable energy does not need federal funding or even tax insentives.....  Think about the examples given for subsidizing big oil in this thread.. Really think about them.  It is like saying "Mr. Farmer we subsidized you a million $$$ by not taxing you a million dollars like we should because you are not good for the environment..."   Smoke and mirrors.... There is no thing such as "clean energy".  It is a political sales pitch...with no meaning. everything has a cost... Make yourself feel good and line the roof and back 40 with solar panels,  pay the 5 times rate for electricity and wait for a hail storm to start over so you can feel good.


We need to meet our energy needs as affordably and wisely as we can.  With as little damage as we can.  But lying to ourselves about the latest fad is not helpful and way too expensive.  

Just as in grain markets.  Energy markets will work to regulate usage through supply/demand factors..... Until governments interfere with the process.  

We will never run out of energy..... look at all the energy we are saving by letting the rest of the world do our we can be free to do drugs and protest...That protest energy will always be there.  



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Senior Contributor

Re: Very concerned

Big oil fought and stalled any attempt to raise ethanol to 15% blend!
in my opinion Perry who is Energy Sec now has a history of siding with big oil against any type of ethanol blend. The only thing that is saving ethanol is the fact that there isnt an alternative oxygenate developed that doent contaminate groundwater. I'm sure big oil is working on it and if developed AG is gonna crash!
looking at it from another view. How would we like it if forced to give up 10% of our market.Big oil is getting plenty of subsidies to make up for it tho.
Veteran Advisor

Re: Very concerned

Again, specifically, what are those subsidies?  IMO, the military guarding overseas oil supplies and production is a subsidy for the consumer, and especially the motoring public.  Anyone remember the arab oil embargo?  In the early 70's if I recall.  To call a tax deduction a subsidy is a very slippery slope, I don't think we in ag want to go there.does oil have an equivilent to ARC or PLC?

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