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rickgthf
Senior Advisor

Re: The problem with "nukes" is simple, ...

The problem with "nukes" is simple, cost. There are five or six new-generation nuclear reactor designs that have been certified to the required safety standards such as passive design that shuts down by itself.

  But the current cost of a 4,500 MW reactor that can produce 1,500 MW of electricity is $32 billion and at current electricity prices can never begin to recover the cost.  It just can't.

  And right now, solar & wind are so much cheaper to build out.  Nuclear doesn't make any sense as long as we can use natural gas as backup, even direct drive turbojet generation is cheaper and almost instantaneous at intermittent peak load.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Unsafe, wasn't it Ford truck that were .....

Rick they still have not developed a battery that will not burn when damaged.... leading to the point I want to make.... EV supporters still need to fudge data or lie as you just did to promote...... one example is the cost of refilling a charge.  The only way it can be advertised as cheaper is by including home installation of solar powering stations... enormously expensive and the charges can take days to weeks to accomplish.

1--Can electric vehicles catch fire?
Experts agree that electric cars catch fire less often than gasoline-powered cars, but the duration and intensity of the fires due to the implementation of lithium-ion battery systems can make the fires in electric cars much harder to put out.
2--
Why electric cars are bad for the environment?
Nevertheless, at the end of the manufacturing process, electric cars are the ones generating more carbon emissions, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists. Why is this? Because electric cars store energy in large batteries (the larger they are, the bigger their range is) that have high environmental costs.
 
3--
Do electric cars explode in crashes?
Almost all electric cars currently on their way to the marketplace use large arrays of lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries. And -- stop me if this sounds familiar -- Li-ion batteries have a tendency to catch fire and occasionally explode. We've learned to live with the dangers of cars with internal combustion engines.
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ddtfarm1
Frequent Contributor

Re: Unsafe, wasn't it Ford truck that were .....

SWxxxxx, I believe you are wasting your time (peeing into the wind if you will) with the anti-electric vehicle option. Dr. "Son-in-Law" has a Tesla and thinks it's the cat's meow. Even airplanes are trying it out.  Better catch a train to Detroit ASAP to talk with the BoDs for Ford and GM if you are committed to the validity of your argument. Stop them now before it's too late.

Fuel cells were an argument for the future usage of ethanol 15 - 20 years ago when we were trying to put a plant in locally. Like fusion, it's just does not seem to get any traction. Solar guys are in the area wanting to put up acres of panels. They actually offer attractive financial returns vs the wind companies. Even better than the "former guy's" 1/2 cent per bushel vote buying scheme of yore.

rickgthf
Senior Advisor

Re: Cost per mile for electric vehicle,

Currently,  the total cost per kWh of electricity delivered to Class 1 customer (residential) here is 12.9 cents.  Our electric vehicle gets 4.1 miles per kWh and is phenomenally consistent. so the cost per mile is 12.9/4.1 or 3.15 cents per mile.

  However, in my case, We use grid-tied solar with a net meter agreement with the power company which simply means we provide them with solar electricity when it's produced, and in return, they supply us with electricity whenever at no cost for the 25-30 years.  Given that our system performance is also guaranteed by our purchase agreement, the total power generated can be accurately estimated and the amortized cost calculated, 5 cents per kWh for the next 25 years.  

  Therefore we can say with some assurance that the fuel cost per mile is 5/4.1 or 1.25 cents per mile.

  You might argue about committing that money for 25 years but it's really no different from buying a house for shelter and expecting to get the value of it in the future or selling the system along with the property if we wish to, people do it all the time.

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Cost per mile for electric vehicle,

Rick from what I read you will need to buy 4 vehicles to make the 25 years.... with average battery life at 8 years.... or replace batteries 4 times at $6k per time.  Is that cost included in your projection?  Or the initial cost of the vehicle?

proponents want to compare only the costs that sound good. like power only.... 

I think the hybrid experience has been wonderful.  But I live farther than a charge cycle from a dealership.  My CPA lives 240 miles away.... and if my wife sits in the car with the AC on while it is charging how long does that extend the charge.  She and I frankly haven't got the time for the charging.  

what will your resale value be?  What is your insurance cost per year?  Can you readily find qualified service technicians for the computer glitch or dent dent repair???

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Cost per mile for electric vehicle,

It is not a waste of time to point out a false narrative..... Other than there are so many....   we live in this wind every day.

Ever since politics started rereading the manifesto they are determined to prove it is "not important to be right as long as you can repeat the lie and pay someone to believe it.  So we are going to save the planet until the planet makes us history.  The planet will be fine long after the last virus is launched.

Do Teslas explode?
Scattered accident reports

A number of Tesla cars have exploded over the years, including in the U.S. In April 2019, Tesla sent a team to investigate the apparent explosion of one of its parked vehicles in Shanghai.
 
 
 
Can electric car catches fire?
In October, NHTSA opened a probe after reviewing reports of three Bolt EVs catching fireunder the rear seat while parked. The probe covers 77,842 Bolt EVs from the 2017 through 2020 model years. LG Chem is the supplier of the batteries.N
 
How do you stop an electric car fire?
Fire services need to drop thousands of litres of water over a burning EV to stop the flames and, sometimes they resort to submerging the vehicle in cold water for days to keep the batteries cool. The only other option is let the fire burn itself out because chemical-based extinguishers don't work on battery fires.
 
 
 
How long does it take to put out a Tesla fire?
4 Hours
It Took 4 Hours To Put Out a Tesla Fire — Here's What Firefighters Should Know About Battery Fires. A fiery Tesla crash that made national headlines this week ended up being a learning experience for the fire department called to put it out and creating a little heat for the department's chief.
Why are Teslas being recalled?
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration asked Tesla on Jan. 13 to recall158,716 of its Model S and X electric vehicles after it concluded that media control unit failures were increasingly common in aging Tesla vehicles, and posed significant safety issues.Feb 2, 2021
 
Has Tesla Been Hacked?
But Tesla accepted the hack in its bug hunting program and quickly delivered a patch back in late October 2020, when it was disclosed by the hackers. They have also disclosed that the hack exploited vulnerabilities in components also used in vehicles other than Teslas.May 13, 2021
 
How Much Will electric cars reduce oil consumption?
The IEA estimates this shift will save nearly two million barrels per day of oil, relative to its business-as-usual projection of the world using at least 70 million barrels of oil per day for transportation by 2040. That consumption level would mark a 30 percent increase from roughly 54 million barrels now.
 
What happens to electric car batteries when they die?
Currently, for example, much of the substance of a battery is reduced during the recycling process to what is called black mass - a mixture of lithium, manganese, cobalt and nickel - which needs further, energy-intensive processing to recover the materials in a usable form.
 
And finally I will let it go with this....... if there is no line at the plug in ....
How long do EV Chargers take?
Home Charging: Get about 48 miles of charge in 12 hours with a domestic outlet, and 0-100% charge in about 9.5 hours with the available 240V 32-amp charger. Public Charging: Get 90 miles of charge in about 30 minutes with DC fast charging (or 0-80% in a little over 2 hours.
 
And if your the third car in line at the station?? 
 
Lots of hidden facts to face..... 

 

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sw363535
Honored Advisor

Re: Cost per mile for electric vehicle,

And in true sd style........ Maybe the folks that like it just don't drive much.  Is that true?  

I sure can see it in urban areas where work is less that 20 miles and short jogs are the rule.  or for the retired drive to bridge club. or Church.

But for the midwest it will be difficult.  We are 120 miles from the sale barn and every road I travel is gravel or mud and belly dragging when it rains.

We don't have decent WiFi or pot hole fixers.  I want a vehicle that is repairable and will last 25 years with my maintenance.  I don't want to drive a computer on these roads.... it would never last.  My oil filters are gravel potted when I change them.   I want federal leadership who will improve my infrastructure.  Not expect me to be rural poverty here in Mayberry while they force me to make payments on something that won't last and is on life line charge half the time and/or when the wind blows.  

So lets stop talking nonsense and global promotion and generate answers that work economically.  If we can I'll save ya a steak or the stuff that makes bagels.  

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unlgrad
Senior Contributor

Re: the future of ethanol

I don't think you even read what you type.  "Wind power was built to capitalize on the higher summer rates."  If wind is cheaper, that is a stupid statement.  Where are you going to store this electricity, the whole grid is set up to meet demand, excess energy would be a huge waste and the power companies are just smarter than you give them credit for.   

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unlgrad
Senior Contributor

Re: the future of ethanol

My last post was a respone to SD and not SW, why it went to where it did.

sdholloway56
Senior Advisor

Re: the future of ethanol

You don't understand how "deregulated" power markets work.

When demand is low and base load still has to be putting along,-say on a typical winter night,-power is dirt cheap.

When it is 100 in Dallas and Houston and every air conditioner is maxed out, it is very expensive.

The 6% or so of the TX generation mix that was N TX wind was basically built by private investors (T. Bonie was one) to capitalize on those price peaks. So they didn't bother to spend the extra 10% or so for de-icing packages. 

"Mandating" that they do so might have "cost" the average consumer a buck a year, or something, but it was real money for those greedy bastards, who, BTW, own the TX Statehouse, two Senators and much of the Congressional delegation lock, stock and barrel.

And in any case, it was the failure of gas, coal and even nukes owing to failure for anybody to tell the greedy bastards to winterize the damn control components.

One of the most shameful, bald faced lies in recent memory- in a time when there's steep competition.

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