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Senior Contributor

Re: I suppose I'll get in trouble for this but

sorry I can't let this go.

 

Kay I truely feel bad for you to have had to deal with the kind of person you say your dad is.  And yes you were very fortunate to connect with Mike and build a life truely different from your childhood.

 

But it doesn't sound like Cher has broken ties with her dad, nor does it sound like she wants to.  So she needs to keep talking, and working at keeping her family intact. 

Fore warned is fore armed, so to speak.  I am sure she doesn't want her family torn asunder like Suey said happened to her mom's family post will reading.

 

So I'd say the best thing to do is keep talking, find out her legal standing and the implications of circumventing a will, tax wise and legally.  Then she has to make sure she can live with her conscience and do what she feels is best.

 

To me working to rectify the situation ahead of time would be the most sensible thing to do.

 

I guess she has to decide the family ties she wants to keep and what affect any and all of her actions would have on herself and everyone involved.

 

Supposedly in God's eye every sinner has until the moment of their death to ask for forgiveness and it will be given.

Perhaps keeping ourselves open to that change of heart can be a good thing.

 

Now I feel preachy so I'll be quiet.  I guess it's just that I cherished my dad so much and still miss him.  I was not ready to be without him when his time came and still find it very hard sometimes that he is gone.  And even as difficult a person as my fil was and hate the hurtful things he did to my husband which often caught me in the crossfire,   I miss him too.

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Honored Advisor

Re: I suppose I'll get in trouble for this but

First, my relationship with my father: I tried, even though I still have trouble hearing with a left ear that was damaged when he slapped me so hard it nearly knocked me out. I was thirteen, and weighed maybe 110, and he was well over 250. Hardly a fair fight.
I refuse to feel guilty about walking away and trying to salvage some happiness before I die.

As for Cher, something she said in her original post just struck a too- familiar chord in my soul. From her response, I see that she feels there may be some similarities in these men. Unless you have been held under that thumb and threatened, you can never "get it ". Lucky you.

I actually forgive my father for being so cruel, but I will not lie about how I was treated and how I feel about it today. If that makes you uncomfortable, I am sorry; but, unless you have been beaten and threatened, you cannot begin to know how hard it so to stand up and say, "No more!"
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Senior Contributor

Re: I suppose I'll get in trouble for this but

I agree Kay and applaud you for overcoming a rotten parent.  It is sad when a daughter misses out on that special father daughter relationship and I feel very lucky for having had it.

 

I was only trying to caution Cher from burning bridges she maybe isn't ready to burn.  It is her decision.  It is so sad to see an entire family affected by one neurotic individual.

 

Myabe it touches me because I have more or less been told by some of my children that I have at times been less than the mother they wanted.  And that really hurts because I have always tried to do the best I could but realize I am weak and that certain happenings in my life have troubled me more than i should have let them.

 

Maybe too I see a melt down of my family as this thing between my husband and son plays out over the next several months and feel kind of powerless in influencing what is to come.  If I could be a different person perhaps it would play out different, but I am me and I know what I am and what is going to happen is going to happen.

 

Really feeling blue today so better shut down the computer.

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Senior Contributor

This whole thread bothers me

Family relationships are complex, frustrating, hurtful, rewarding, joyful and miserable....depending on who you are and what kind of relative you are relating to. 

 

To suggest, based on the limited information we have about this family, that the older gentleman is simply acting out of a need to control or bully, may be entirely on the mark or it may be a bit unfair.

 

The man made a decision about his estate.  It is his choice to make and his consequences to live with.  We get into so much trouble when we try to make people do what WE think is right.  When we try to FIX things that we think are unjust. 

 

Those are characteristics of codependents who, in fact, want to control everything and everyone because they are so certain that they know best.  Any time we try to control another person's decisions and actions we are the ones who need to take a hard look in the mirror.  Even with the best of intentions, it is wrong to assume that our way is the right way. 

 

Back tracking through this mess I have to wonder why the SIL felt the need to butt into the old man's business?  What about the DD?  Do you really think a man who has a good relationship with his DD would disinherit her based on something a SIL said?  Maybe there has been some meddling going on for a while and the old man finally had his fill.

 

If I had the least bit of doubt that I couldn't carry out a person's last wishes as their executor I would LOVINGLY decline.  It is an honor to be selected to be a person's executo.  To begin planning how to get around their wishes BEFORE they are even dead is appalling to me.....even if I disagreed with the terms of the will.  How would you feel if you had your own reasons for the way you choose to dispose of your estate and your chosen executor simply decided to circumvent your wishes. 

 

As stated earlier, keep talking while the man is alive to promote a reconciliation and to try to get him to make some possible changes.... However, if you sense that he is not going to change his mind then remove yourself from the situation if you truly believe that his decisions are immoral and unjust. 

 

But to plan and scheme ways to circumvent his last wishes is, in my opinion, immoral and unjust itself.  How is that any better than what you are accusing him of?

 

All of us are products of our upbringing.  Sometimes those early experiences are so bad that we may be tempted to project the associated feelings on similar situations without knowing all the facts.  I am glad that we can share our lives and experiences but I always try to remember that the advice I seek will always be colored by that person's life experience.  That is what makes this board so interesting.

 

But this whole thread has bothered me due to the implied "the old man is kind of evil" but it is not evil to "manipulate" his last wishes. 

Honored Advisor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

I have re-read Cher's origi al post, and all of my own replies on this thread. In no way have I suggested that she violate her fsther's final wishes. I have tried to show her that she, or she and her sisters, can give money to the disinherited sister, to help preserve their sense of family.

Once this man is gone,,.his will is done, and what he has left to his heirs is theirs to do with as they see fit. Hearses don't have luggage racks...the material is left behind to the living.

What I think you fail to notice ismthat if Cher does communicate the facts to her sisters, she will be violating her parents' " will" in the sense that she specifically says they have told her to " keep her mouth shut about it". Defy him now, defy him later. Which is worse?

I say let him do whatever he wants, and then treat your sister as well as you can out of proceeds of the estate that you "don't need anyway". That is thr ONLY way to abide by ALL of his wishes, now and later on. I can guarantee you that if she does spread the word, she will reap a whirlwind of his spite.

I never called her father a" bully". In fact, I specifically said that the term might not apply in her situation. I expressed a disclaimer in every single post...that just because my family is dysfunctional, hers might not be so. She idwntified with what I wrote about narcissism...so????

I have not. Said that anyone is " evil", and I have not anywhere near suggested that she violate or manulate hisnwill, as a legal instrument. I showed her she could take HER inheritance, and perhaps suggest to her other two sisters how they could use theirs to help treat her sister with the consideration her fsther lacks for her. Any gift, whether a living gift or a bequest, is GIVEN, and the recipient can do whatever he or she sees fit with it, right?

She asked us what we thought. I told her. She can cross him now, by talking about somethingshe's been forbidden to talk about; OR, she can wait and try to make peace in the family after the will is executed. Third choice is that she can tell her folks that it makes her too uncomfortabele to be charged with cutting her sister off cold.

Read my posts again, and if you can, please show me where I have done the things you seem to think I have done wrong here. Frankly, unless you've been disinherited, I doubt you have a clue how it feels, and why I feel the way I do

I seem to be the one person who's replied who could shed any light on how her sister will feel. For me, it was just the last in a long
line of abuses I have dealt with...physical, mental, and emotional. All i had to do to keep my inheritance was kneel down and take one more bearing...so, I declined. In the final analysis, I chose not to be bought.

Any man who singles out one child to treat this way is a bum, in my book. Cher's old man may be the exception to that rule, but he is choosing to split his children apart with his money. I wouldn't vote him Father of the Year....

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Senior Advisor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

Once again logic rises to the top. Well done!

 

That is why it is important who you choose for executor. I think the benefactor should choose someone that will carry out his wishes to the letter. Dividing funds after he is deceased is changing the intent of the will. In such cases they often put estates into trust because some heirs cannot be trusted with the proceeds.

 

I don't know how people can determine whether the benefactors action is justified or not. The only evidence we have is what the author told us and her testimony is evidently enough to convict the old guy of gross incompetence or vindictiveness. People regularly get disinherited or preferential treatment from benefactors. Yet it is their property to dispose of as they wish fair or unfair.

 

Sometimes actions produce unexpected results. One better tread lightly if they expect to be beneficiaries of a sizable estate. However, it is their choice if the want to challenge the old man but they better be prepared for the result.

 

BTW I am not apt  to be vindictive toward one of my children or their spouses. But then  I haven't been pushed over the edge by some insolent twerp yet!

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Senior Contributor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

One observation, age can do bring out the very worst in a person too. Some times an older person can jump to the wrong conclusion or be told a half truth.  Mistakes can be made but it does seem from reading here that a will is the will of the person making the paperwork.

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Honored Advisor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

Both you and Soilbabe have assumed that the SIL did something " wrong." If I recall Cher's story right, he just didn't agre with the old man on what everyone else deemed a" minor" thing. As I said, I feel he was looking for a reason to do what he did.

Let me give you a good example of what can set someone with a narcissistic personality off:My father sat next to a friend at church for over forty years. It started when they both were ushers passing the collection plate, and continued after the friend went totally blind...they sat on the small pew in the church vestibule, instead of the sanctuary.
One day, they disagreed about when farmers in the area started sulfa dusting peanuts for insects. He stopped sitting with the man,
and I do not know if they ever spoke again before the guy died.
In the grand scheme of things, what did it matter?

So, cutting off cold is a tactic that people whp think they are always right...whether they are, or not.

Again, onc ethe girls who do receive money from their fsther's estate and the sale of his assets, the proceeds are THEIRS. If they want to share with their sister, I would guarantee that this is what their mother taught them to do growing up.
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Honored Advisor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

People with some age on them seem to me to tend towards the same personality they have always had. Cher says her father has always had to be right, and he's disinheriting a child because her husband disputed him on a minor issue. Sounds like he is staying true to form to me, not changing due to dimished capacity.

True, a significant personality alteration can signal physical and mental deterioration, but I didn't pick up from Cher's post that this is the problem. These are two people who are still pretty active and alert, still doing a lot of farm work themselves.



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Senior Advisor

Re: This whole thread bothers me

I don't care what the mother said pr what the siblings think. If you dispose of inherited assets to another, then you are betraying the intent of the benefactor. What about your children and grandlids? Perhaps he wanted them to benefit from your inheritance. What if he didn't want the proceeds to go to your sisters illmannered drunken kids.

 

If i thought any of my heirs would dispute my will, it would go into a trust and they wouldn't have anything to say about it. Like I say some people shouldn't be executors. They atren't trust worthy.

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